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Author | Topic: The fossile record conclusively disproves evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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And the deception that those quote mines employ is outline here: Quote Mine Project: "Lack of Identifiable
Phylogeny"
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frako Member (Idle past 334 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined:
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Now please be kind enough to explain to me which part of my quote is wrong. You missed some parts in the quote it would be like me quoting the bible:There is no god. Now that sentence pops up in the bible prove to me i quote mined it. The most important part that you missed in your quote was this. Rather than challenge well-entrenched evolutionary theory, palaeontologists tacitly agreed with their zoological colleagues that the fossil record was too poor to do much beyond supporting, in a general sort of way, the basic thesis that life had evolved.
That is not basically true, that's a lie. The fossil record shows that new species pop up suddenly, without any connection to supposed ancestors. Let me quote you Eldredge, N. and Tattersall, the way you like to quote people.
that the fossil record ..... beyond supporting, in a general sort of way, the basic thesis that life had evolved. Or so you think. Nope so experimental data shows Lizards Released and Stranded on Islands Show Evolution at Work | Live Science But if you where to find fossils of the ancestral species and all the 14 new species people like you would scream show me the missing link the 14 lizards just poped up from no where.
What is generally called "micro-evolution" is in fact recombination of existing genetic material. There is a limit to the amount of genetic material, therefore there is a limit to how much a certain species can change. Whats the limit of mutation or changes in that genetic material?
They will stop to do so, as was found out during the research into mutation breeding: http://www.weloennig.de/...of-Law-of-Recurrent-Variation.pdf"In accord with the law of recurrent variation, mutants in every species thoroughly examined (from pea to man) − whether naturally occurring, experimentally induced, or accidentally brought about − happen in a large, but nevertheless limited spectrum of phenotypes with either losses of functions or neutral deviations. Yet, in the absence of the generation of new genes and novel gene reaction chains with entirely new functions, mutations cannot transform an original species into an entirely new one. This conclusion agrees with all the experiences and results of mutation research of the 20th century taken together as well as with the laws of probability. Thus, the law of recurrent variation implies that genetically properly defined species have real boundaries that cannot be abolished or transgressed by accidental mutations." Um so this law does it exist anywhere lese but Lnings imagination. It has ben cited 4 times well by him and no one else. The whole thing boils down to how much radiation, or chemicals you can expose a plant to before it dies. And are there any changes visible in the phenotype. Yeah cutting edge science right there Includes references to Behe with his long discredited Irreducible complexity, and also Dembski with his no free lunch of course, Plugging the best ID stars The paper is basically a con job to convert the gullible creationists, im surprissed it got published at all even if it was in the Research Signpost37/661 (2), Fort P.O., Trivandrum-695 023, Kerala, India Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I see you've disabled comments on your linked site. You are wiser then you at first appear. Or running scared from facing reality. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Percy Member Posts: 22503 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Hi Eliyahu,
About the part of your message from where you say "I'll say something about them" up until where you say "If you want me to say more about the fossiles, just let me know", isn't that all just unattributed cut-n-pastes from the web? I can't tell which particular sites because what you quoted appears at literally dozens of creationist websites. --Percy
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
However, the fact remains: The fossil record shows that evolution never happened. Refuted in Message 5. Yawn. You apparently are incapable of either replying to, or understanding, this. Repeating your assertion does not make it any more valid. It just make you delusional. Deal with the evidence that refutes your argument or accept that it is refuted ... ... or continue to babble in the corner. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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shalamabobbi Member (Idle past 2877 days) Posts: 397 Joined: |
Saddly it seams the uneducated are being selected for in our evolution. Probably because they either do not know what contraception is or think its evil. It is evil, just ask these folks.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Eliyahu's dishonesty in this thread alone is enough for Martin Luther to write a whole 'nother book:
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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The fossil record flatly fails to substantiate this expectation of finely graded change. And curiously, you have been told that this is not the general expectation, that even Darwin suggested alternatives and reasons for it. Plus this was shown to be outright false in Message 5:
quote: There you have a fossil record of actual gradual evolution over time from 65 million years ago to today, complete with intermediates and other aspects predicted by evolution. Your claim is falsified -- shown to be false -- invalidated -- refuted.
In fact, the fossil record does not convincingly document a single transition from one species to another This too was shown to be an outright false statement in Message 5:
quote: This image shows smooth transitions from generation to generation, it shows "arbitrary speciation" (where difference occur sufficient to make the population different from the ancestral population through phylogenic evolution) and it shows "absolute speciation" where a breeding population divides into two distinct species. Again, your claim is falsified -- shown to be false -- invalidated -- refuted.
The fossil record itself provided no documentation of continuity - of gradual transition from one animal or plant to another of quite different form. And this too has been shown to be outright false in Message 63:
quote: Again, your claim is falsified -- shown to be false -- invalidated -- refuted. The fact that you have chosen to repeat these assertions after Message 5 and Message 63 without demonstrating that either Message 5 or Message 63 are in any way false, shows an intellectual dishonesty and a person that is arrogantly ignorant of reality, incapable of honest debate. If you are going to argue against a world of evidence I suggest that you become familiar with that world first. But you've made your mudpile now, and you can wallow in it to your hearts content and enjoy the view as much as you like. The real world will progress happily without you, unaffected in any way by your opinions and beliefs. We know your claims are false, we know that you have lied, and we know that you have no argument other than old cherry-picking quote-mines and tired false innuendos. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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You say that relying on authority is a "logical fallacy". Well that statement of you is the logical fallacy. Or you must be of the opinion that it is better to rely on laymen in scientific issues... No, I didn't think so. OK, so who to believe about paleontology? The layman Eliyahu, or the paleontologists? "Evolution is both a scientific fact and a scientific theory. Evolution is a fact in the sense that life has changed through time. In nature today, the characteristics of species are changing, and new species are arising. The fossil record is the primary factual evidence for evolution in times past, and evolution is well documented by further evidence from other scientific disciplines, including comparative anatomy, biogeography, genetics, molecular biology, and studies of viral and bacterial diseases." --- The Paleontological Society "The fossil record of vertebrates unequivocally supports the hypothesis that vertebrates have evolved through time, from their first records in the early Paleozoic Era about 500 million years ago to the great diversity we see in the world today. The hypothesis has been strengthened by so many independent observations of fossil sequences that it has come to be regarded as a confirmed fact, as certain as the drift of continents through time or the lawful operation of gravity." --- Society of Vertebrate Paleontology
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Bs'd You can find more HERE Enjoy! BfD I've seen the fossil record, something you cannot claim. I studied it intensely for several years for my Ph.D. exams. Your use of quote-mined quotations as "evidence" does not impress me. But that's pretty much all creation "science" has to offer.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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I got them from here and there and everywhere. Some I checked in the original publications, I think I checked all of 'm in the Talk Origins Archive, and they are all totally correct. Fail. Do you know what it is like to submit an article to a peer reviewed journal (pick a science of your choice -- I won't say expertise as you haven't exhibited any)? And I know that one of your references is false.
There is no "sin of omission", because the context does not alter the meaning of the quotes. The context of the scientific papers show that what was discussed was gradualism vs non-gradualism, the context of the scientific papers does NOT show that evolution has not been observed anywhere in the fossil record, and the context of the scientific papers does not lead to the conclusion that evolution has never been observed in the fossil record. The context does not alter the meaning of the quotes when you deal with them honestly.
If you think different, then prove it; give the context and show that they mean something else. Message 5, Message 63 and Message 83 ALL show evolution occurring in the fossil record in several ways. What you don't seem to understand is that these FACTS in the fossil record showing evolution occurring eviscerate your argument no matter how many quotes you stand up on cardboard figures. Again, science is not run by opinion, it is run by evidence and testing. Every fossil find is a test of evolution and not one fossil has invalidated the theory of evolution:
The Theory of Evolution (ToE), stated in simple terms, is that the process of evolution over generations, and the process of divergent speciation, are sufficient to explain the diversity of life as we know it, from the fossil record, from the genetic record, from the historic record, and from everyday record of the life we observe in the world all around us. This has been tested and tested and tested and not one test has shown up the slightest discrepancy. Again I observe your inability\unwillingness to deal with the evidence of evolution in the fossil record that I have provided, and your intellectually shallow attempt to side-step this and pretend that these posts do not exist. Your readers will know that your lack of response to the evidence is inadequate at best, and clearly exhibits self-delusion. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Your use of quote-mined quotations as "evidence" does not impress me. But that's pretty much all creation "science" has to offer. It certainly is all I-lie-to-you has to offer, based on his repeated posts on this thread and his failure to engage the evidence that eviscerates his claims. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Your use of quote-mined quotations as "evidence" does not impress me. But that's pretty much all creation "science" has to offer. It certainly is all I-lie-to-you has to offer, based on his repeated posts on this thread and his failure to engage the evidence that eviscerates his claims. Looks like he's here to witness, not to engage in debate. Like some other creationists we've seen, their beliefs are not open to question or change no matter what the evidence shows. They're here to preach, not to learn. It is truly sad to see minds so twisted shut. I can't imagine any deity favoring such, except maybe Apate (q.v.).Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The fact is that NOTHING can ever disprove evolution. It's made of Silly Putty.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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The fact is that NOTHING can ever disprove evolution. It's made of Silly Putty. The are a lot of things that could either disprove or seriously rearrange the current theory of evolution. But, unfortunately for you, creationists are not the ones likely to come up with those things. If there are changes required in the theory of evolution it will be scientists who discover them. Creationists will, as usual, be sitting on the sidelines still fighting against Darwin, as if discrediting him in some manner would damage the theory of evolution as it has evolved 150 years later. And if scientists make changes in the theory of evolution, that theory will only be stronger than ever. That's the way real science works, as opposed to the creation "science" you are apparently more familiar with.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
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