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Author | Topic: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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If sin is the cause of evil in this world (the Fall), and therefore human beings are the cause of it, why do you all go on pointing the finger at God? Calvinism. Every single thing comes from the Will of God.
Even if you can claim He's *ultimately* responsible you have no case against Him if the way the universe is... God determined how the Universe is run.
that sin is a reaction TO God and the resultant evil therefore inevitable because God can't change His nature. How impotent is your God?
There is no sin or evil IN Him, it originates from the Creation in conflict with Him. He made the creation the way it is.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Faith writes: Even if you can claim He's *ultimately* responsible you have no case against Him if the way the universe is run means that evil originates from the Creation itself and not from God This statement is not true. I have a case against God as long as God has the power to prevent evil but chooses not to. Regardless of where evil comes from.Regardless of whether or not The Fall is historically accurate. As long as God exists, has the power to prevent evil (like the example I provided for Jon) but chooses not to interfere... I have a case.
There is no sin or evil IN Him, it originates from the Creation in conflict with Him If God exists, has the power to prevent evil (like the example I provided for Jon) but chooses not to interfere... then there is evil IN God.This would be the epitome of a person standing by and doing nothing while someone else gets hurt right in front of them while they could easily prevent it. If the choice were put to a human... I would expect everyone with any sort of basic moral standard to attempt to prevent the injuries.Why is it any different if the choice is put to a God? Doesn't that make it worse, if the God still does nothing? God, being God, may very well have an answer to this question that is satisfactory.However, in my way of being human, I have yet heard of an answer that comes close to something that could be called "satisfactory." What about you, Faith?Would you rather have God protect free will and allow your child to be raped as per my example above? Or would you rather God protect your child and interfere? If anyone's answer is seriously "I would rather have my child be raped than to force a rapist into a day off..." Well, then, I would suggest that perhaps such a person is not very nice to be around, to say the least.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
God determined how the Universe is run. It is determined by His Moral Law, which is of His own nature. You are asking God to change His nature.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I have a case against God as long as God has the power to prevent evil but chooses not to. I wouldn't risk it if I were you. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If God exists, this statement is not necessarily correct. And your evidence in support of that is?
Therefore, the "context" of evil could possibly include more than humans. In such a context, what's wrong with a solution to evil involving more than humans? I'm not even sure that statement has any meaning? What might be an example of evil outside of humans?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: It is determined by His Moral Law, which is of His own nature. Another one of those totally content free assertions. Does that even have any meaning?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Faith writes: Stile writes: I have a case against God as long as God has the power to prevent evil but chooses not to. Good luck with that. I never meant to imply that I would win in a fight with God Of course, such a fight would only add more issues to the appearance of God's lack of morals...
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Jon Inactive Member
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What if that God actually is the one that exists? If your god exists, Faiththe god who doesn't believe in equal rights for homosexuals, who damns people to Hell for doing science, who's gonna send his hybrid son to war with everyone who disagrees with himthen we are first all in trouble and second should be preparing to fight that god with every power we have. If a truly good god exists, then that is great. If no god exists, so it is. But if some wicked, hateful, god such as the one preached by fundamentalist Christians exists, then we have a real duty to one another to do whatever it takes to put him out of power and then laugh at how pathetic he is. It's pretty straightforward, Faith.Love your enemies!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It is determined by His Moral Law, which is of His own nature. You are asking God to change His nature. Okay, then His Moral Law and nature involves letting evil run rampant... which is the point being made.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I can only refer you back to Pascal's statement. How on earth can anyone say the things you say? It takes the breath away.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
jar writes: Stile writes: jar writes: Evil is a human construct, human creation, human problem and human challenge. If God exists, this statement is not necessarily correct. And your evidence in support of that is? If God exists, it is possible that evil is a god construct, not a human construct.But I don't think this is relevant. God isn't even necessary for evil to not be a human construct. jar writes: What might be an example of evil outside of humans? Evil may be a construct of evolution or just a part of the way our universe is. An example of evil outside of humans would be evil within dolphins, or monkeys, or mice or any other number of animals that seem to display a notion of right vs. wrong or fairness. Do non-human animals understand "evil"?I don't know for sure as I'm not a non-human. But all of our research and observations do seem to indicate that the answer is "yes." So what happens to your statement if the context of evil moves from being strictly a human construct into being an intelligence construct? Now any intelligent-enough being has a hand in constructing evil, not just humans. Can you show how evil is somehow restricted to being human and not simply intelligence? I am saying that God is intelligent enough to join in the context of evil with us.Perhaps, being God, His intelligence is too different from ours in order to bother with our troubles. But, again, that's what I originally said... maybe God simply doesn't care enough to interfere.
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Jon Inactive Member |
We don't know what might go down if my daughter is raped or not raped until it happens.
This is a human problem and it is up to humans to handle it. I can tell you I feel grateful when I believe GOD has acted on my behalf to help me when I have felt I needed it, but that is because I am selfish like anyone else. So, overall, it is probably better for any god to simply stay out of it and let our destinies play out as we make them play out.
Perhaps God does actually have a satisfactory answer. Sure. It is always possible that allowing the rape makes possible a better world than stopping the rape. But we don't know that.
But we're talking make-believe here... imagination... is it possible to imagine an unrestricted, all-powerful dictator who does not become corrupted over time? It's not about being corrupted. It is about taking away the free will of humanity.
Could such a being make extremely minor changes/interferences with our world that would have monumental, obvious benefits such as the example I provided? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is for us to decide, not some supra-human dictatorno matter how benevolent he/she may be. I don't want your god deciding my fate. And I am sure no one wants my god deciding their fate. So it's probably fair if we all agree that no god should be deciding anyone's fate. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
People who believe pray. God will protect people if you pray for it. Unless you hate Him of course and are just praying to see what happens, which is hypocrisy and He won't answer that.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Unless you hate Him of course I'm not sure people hate you god. But I for one do wonder why he does not protect people a little more than he does.The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Oh they do hate God.
I believe He's protecting people a lot all the time, you just have NO idea and are inclined to think the worst. But as I said, He does answer the prayer of believers. Prayers of mine He's answered only recently were wonderful and surprising. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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