|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: 2014 was hotter than 1998. 2015 data in yet? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
So you cannot wash your closes in the wee hours of the morning when most people in your locality are asleep. No. Because I am also asleep. I don't have to be awake while the machine's washing - but I do have to be awake to put the clothes in it, and then move them to the drier/hang them. And all this has to be completed well before I go to work, since I don't so much care to wear wet underwear. But really: the fact that you're railing on me because I don't wake up at 2:00 am to do my laundry really shows how pathetic your position is.
But waiting to turn the dishwasher on until right before you leave the house is hardly going to have any impact whatsoever on peak load times. It's one of a collection of things you can do. And when everyone else does it, then what?Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
In fact, LNA hasn't made a single post since his suspension about two weeks ago. Sure he has.
You've made statements to the effect that using solar power to generate large percentages of power (and not all of our current usage) will cause us to have an economy like Kenya ... Not really.
... and you persist in talking about 100% replacement even when you are not addressing people talking about running on nothing but solar power. Again, not really. If you want to talk about something other than 100% replacement, go for it. But LNA started this thread to harp about global warming and then started pissing on about the miracle of solar power. I'm just going with the flow. Let's talk about partial replacement. We can start with you getting some figures showing where it's decreased GHG.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Shallowing down the peaks allows for FF generators to not run non-stop at max capacity. But that's what you want them to do. When they run at max capacity, they run the most efficiently (unless by 'max' you mean at the point where they're about to blow). Look at your car. Idling is the least efficient thing you can do with your engine - it runs and burns gas yet propels you nowhere. Going very slow is only a step above idling and your car is still burning up more fuel just in keeping the engine running than what actually goes toward moving you forward. As you increase speed, though, you increase the ratio of fuel being used to move the car to fuel being used just to keep the pulleys spinning - you get more efficiency.
Those peaks and valleys aren't the same thing as the intermittency of renewable energy at all. Of course not. They're one of the benefits of supplementing traditional energy with renewable ones. Peaks and valleys are never 'benefits'.
Actually, there's a shorter peak in the morning and then a larger peak in the evening. And then on top of that the height of those peaks varies by day, by week, by month, and by year. Yes. They are predictable and steady. The power ramps up and ramps down smoothly. Unlike renewables which generate one second and go dead the next.
That's why storage is such a key component, as I've been harping on. I agree. But the storage technology isn't there; not at a cost that makes it feasible for the majority of people anyway.
Have you looked into the Tesla PowerWall yet? Yes. Remember? I pointed out how ridiculously expensive it is and how little power storage you get with it: Message 279.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
That's why storage is such a key component, as I've been harping on. I agree. But the storage technology isn't there; not at a cost that makes it feasible for the majority of people anyway.
Have you looked into the Tesla PowerWall yet? Yes. Remember? I pointed out how ridiculously expensive it is and how little power storage you get with it: Message 279. Okay, so you do understand the concept I'm trying to get across. Thank you.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Okay, so you do understand the concept I'm trying to get across. Thank you. That's it? I've always agreed that running on pure renewables would be the ideal as far as reducing electricity-related GHG emissions. And I've always agreed that the big hurdle to overcome is the storage. I personally do not see chemical batteries as being the answer to the storage problem. I'd be interested in Dogmafood going further into depth on his concrete-lifting battery idea.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dogmafood Member (Idle past 379 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined:
|
I personally do not see chemical batteries as being the answer to the storage problem. I'd be interested in ProtoTypical going further into depth on his concrete-lifting battery idea. Armchair proclamations are often best left unexamined. The storage capacity of a 1000 tonnes is not dense enough at reasonable heights to be very useful. You might store enough for 3 or 4 homes and it would take up 400 m3. On the other hand it would probably last a long time.
The Ludington Pumped Storage power plant stores enough power for 1.65 million homes by using off peak power from a nuclear plant. It covers about 3 sq miles.
quote: Edit Flywheels would probably be a better idea. Edited by ProtoTypical, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
2015 data is in and so is January 2016 data.
2015 was the hottest year on record and 2016 is starting out even worse. Several of the months in 2015 were the hottest on record, leading to 2015 overall being the hottest year ever recorded The global temperature anomaly for January 2016 was 1.13 Celsius. That makes it the hottest January on record (the previous record was 0.95 C in 2007). But there’s more: 1.13 is the largest anomaly for any month since records began in 1880. There have only been monthly anomalies over 1C three times before in recorded history, and those three were all from last year. The farther back in the past you go, the lower the anomalies are on average.
Bad Astronomy Dr. Plait does link to a refutation of a deniers argument in this article. I suggest any deniers at least take a look at it before you post some denial hog wash. Here I will make it easy for you.
Denier claims Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
If it's true we can effect drastic changes in the climate system, then I suppose a few questions need to be answered:
This thread's probably not the place for that discussion... so I started a new one:
The Optimal Climate & Optimal Human DevelopmentLove your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I think RAZD and LNA have given up trying to support their outrageous claims. You wish. Your claims get more and more ridiculous and blind to reality.
It doesn't matter how cheap solar becomes, it will always be cheaper to run a grid system of mass-production and distribution than to run on a subsistence model of electricity generation. My personal use is far from subsistence -- it is doing so well that I am looking at expanding my use of electricity so I can cut down on other energy. The systems being installed in India and Kenya are lifting people OUT of subsistence living. Nor do I envisage removal of the grid wiring, but converting it to a web network with billions of generation locations distribute in a way that the energy is shared as needed. I produced more energy than I used in December, when days were short and sunshine limited. That surplus is out there on the web for others to use. So I expect to be producing more than I need for some time. For little cost ($3,000.00-$5,000) you can buy off the shelf power backup that would allow you to power your peak-load time usage and replenish during low load times. This market is just beginning ... because solar power panels are creating a demand for it. The price will come down as the technology is developed -- and there is a LOT of activity in developing energy storage systems. Solar and wind and tidal energy generation are developing more and more, and efficiencies are increasing while costs are dropping. Remaining glued to fossil fuels is unrealistic. One of the last "frontiers" is powering vehicles with renewable systems, and there are several approaches that are undergoing further development. For example compressed air car technology is being developed into a practical system. This would be amazing for public transportation -- where the vehicles recharge at stations (and use air compression for brakes) -- no high voltage subway rails or trolley\trolly-bus overhead wires. Of course you need compressors, but they can be powered by any energy. This is a common element of all new powering systems -- hydrogen, fuel cells, etc -- but I think compressed air is (a) the easiest for infrastructure (most garages have compressors ...) (b) the safest as there is nothing there to cause fires in a crash.
I don't even have a house... One of my new projects is to work with my town so that it can go fossil fuel free by 2020 (the "2020 vision project") by installing solar panels on town properties ... with co-op funding: people "buy" panels to be installed, the town gets the electricity and the panel "owners" get credit against their property taxes. This is working with the existing way solar power is structured with the utility company. Co-op members could buy and sell shares (panels). The town gets cheaper electricity without having to fund the panels, the members get cheaper taxes -- both because they get a rebate but because town costs are lowered - win-win. There is no reason that you couldn't have a company provide solar power and you could sign up to use their power -- you can already choose different utility companies to provide your electricity over the existing grid system. Now I live -- intentionally -- in a small town in RI, and it is very very feasible to provide all the electricity that the town needs by this system. I don't need to focus on your unrealistic extreme scenario cases (NY city may take a while but that doesn't mean the small town can't get started on it). There is also more interest each year. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
What is the plan? Turn off the furnace and hot water while people are at home making dinner or taking a shower? The furnace is only needed for part of the year. Without it hot water becomes 18/58=31% of usage. I have heard other sources say it is 40% of energy use. I use hot water radiant floor heat, and water heaters are hot enough, so this summer I will be installing a large electric water heater for hot water and heat. It will be powered by the excess power I have been generating. This will double my savings from my panels. In addition I will be adding solar hot water to "precondition" the water entering the water heater, reducing the energy demand.
If you want to conserve your power, conserve it. But the point is that it has to be up to you. If it is not up to the end user to conserve, then you do indeed end up with a Kenyan economy where economic prosperity and the well-being it generates are constrained by the availability of reliable energy. And I can take my house system and place it anywhere in rural America and not be reduced to a "Kenyan economy ... constrained by the availability of reliable energy." There is absolutely no reason everyone else cannot do this -- even if you have to "rent" panels half-way across the continent and access it through the energy web. Every existing generation plant can be replaced with solar power and you would not even notice it. It is your misconception that is your problem. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : lost some of thatby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
If we move the peak into the valley then it is no longer a peak. You mean midnight? Put your dishwasher and clothes washer on timers.
Though with large scale renewable energy systems, where the consumption of power is separated from its generation by the storage medium, these issues like peak load become less important. You just have to have enough power, period. And the best place to store energy is as local as possible -- thus the Tesla Wall for homes and small businesses. This technology is just beginning to be practical, and it is one of the growing endeavors: competition will lower costs, technology improvements will improve efficiency.
It's not 'unlimited consumption' and it's not 'washing our hair so much' - it's just washing it at the time of our choosing. Which is a cultural thing, and this can change. Personally I think Americans wash too much (and are unhealthy as a result). Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
2015 data is in and so is January 2016 data. 2015 was the hottest year on record and 2016 is starting out even worse. And 2015 was higher than previous records for each month of the year. But that is only part of the story: Scientists are floored by what’s happening in the Arctic right now quote: If there is a tipping point to sudden extreme change we could be approaching that. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Put your dishwasher and clothes washer on timers. I really don't understand this. The dishwasher, sure. But clothes washer? What happens to the clothes when they're done washing?
... competition will lower costs And suddenly you're a laissez-faire capitalist. Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Every existing generation plant can be replaced with solar power and you would not even notice it. Prove. It. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Every existing generation plant can be replaced with solar power and you would not even notice it. Prove. It. The technology exists. Now. Off the shelf. All it takes is implementation, not any new science or engineering of systems. Also see Here's how to get solar power if you don't own a roof - Vox Community based systems sharing installation costs. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024