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Author Topic:   Molecular Population Genetics and Diversity through Mutation
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 56 of 455 (785005)
05-27-2016 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by PaulK
05-27-2016 7:35 AM


Reality really should be taken into consideration.
I would think that the simple fact that evolution has continued for over three billion years in the one sample we have studied might be sufficient to indicate the process does not decrease diversity to the point it must halt.
Yes, the assertion that life on this earth is not billions of years old can be made but that position too has been soundly refuted by reality and discarded by all scientists and all of the major Christian denominations.
PaulK writes:
I think that I can speak for pretty much everyone when I tell you that we are still waiting for you to produce the evidence justifying your claims.
But I think pretty much everyone also understands that it is impossible to present evidence in support of Faith's position so we will of necessity continue waiting.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 55 by PaulK, posted 05-27-2016 7:35 AM PaulK has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 61 of 455 (785053)
05-27-2016 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
05-27-2016 1:02 PM


Re: genetic diversity on the ark
Faith writes:
Twelve is really a lot when you are talking about EVERY locus in the genome, or on the ark at least a majority, and when you assume, as I do, that there were lots more functioning genes for a given trait than is now the case, huge numbers having been lost to "junk DNA" since then.
Except, as usual Faith, you have been shown that your assumption that there were lots more functioning genes for a given trait than is now is simply utter, total and complete nonsense.
We have genetic DNA samples from humans, plants and animals that would have been alive at the same time Adam supposedly lived and know for a fact that your assumption is wrong. You have even been shown that evidence numerous times.
Further, we know also have DNA samples from tens of thousands of years before Adam was supposedly created and know for a fact that that DNA is quite similar to what is seen in living critters.
Thank God there never was an Adam & Eve or the Ark.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 05-27-2016 1:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Faith, posted 05-27-2016 1:22 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 64 of 455 (785060)
05-27-2016 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Faith
05-27-2016 1:22 PM


Re: genetic diversity on the ark
Faith writes:
Your dating methods are unreliable.
You often make such silly and unsupported claims yet so far no one including you has ever shown the dating methods to be unreliable and in fact every new method develops has simply increased the accuracy of those dating methods. Further, those very dating methods you claim unreliable are used by Biblical scholars to date recent archeological finds.
Sorry Charley but you don't get to swing both ways or expect anyone to accept your nonsense assertions until you present the model, method, procedure, process or thingamabob used to determine that the dating methods are invalid. Reference to what the Bible says is not such evidence, only evidence of the ignorance of the folk that wrote the Bible stories.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Faith, posted 05-27-2016 1:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 247 of 455 (785709)
06-09-2016 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Faith
06-09-2016 10:18 AM


So many errors in just one post.
Faith writes:
Any changes needed by the organism are already available through the built-in genetic possibilities, while the changes being added are either neutral or deleterious. I don't know why this isn't obvious.
It isn't obvious because it is simply not correct Faith and is refuted by ALL of the evidence available.
Faith writes:
Even the idea that there has to be this need to change with changing conditions or they'll all go extinct is just an article of the Evo Faith. The idea of "Fitness" is an article of the Evo Faith. IF there was such a need, mutations wouldn't come to the rescue, being more likely the cause of extinctions themselves than any help against them.
Again, all of those are not simply wrong assertions, they are nonsense and refuted by the BILLIONS of years of history and all of the available evidence.
We know extinctions have happened and in many cases the cause of the extinction event and mutations simply play no part in any of them.
We know for a fact that conditions change and that those changes have lead to extinctions.
Faith writes:
Oh well. I think the ToE is a big fat deception, so what else is new. Poor poor human race, so easily sold a bogus theory whose only recommendation is that it seems to get rid of the God they think they can do without. Mistaking mutations for friends when they are really murderers.
Again. more utter nonsense Faith. The Theory of Evolution does not get rid of any gods except the one you try to market as is shown by the fact that all of the major Christian Denominations have no issue with the Theory of Evolution or the fact of evolution or the fact humans are related to chimpanzees.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Faith, posted 06-09-2016 10:18 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 266 of 455 (785763)
06-10-2016 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Faith
06-10-2016 8:37 AM


Re: Situation
Remember the only definition of "fitter" in reality is to live long enough to reproduce.
Natural selection has no goal at all. That is why Artificial Selection as is done in AKC Dog Breeds is far different that anything that happens in the natural world.
Edited by jar, : hit wrong key.
Edited by jar, : AKC not AKA

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Faith, posted 06-10-2016 8:37 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 307 of 455 (785835)
06-11-2016 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Faith
06-11-2016 7:08 PM


Re: An allele by any other name
Faith writes:
Wonderful. No difference between disease and health, no difference between healthy genetic diversity needed by the genetically impoverished seals and some kind of useless mutational diversity. This is science?
You've been told this before but it is well worth repeating.
Evolution is not directional. It is not better vs worse.
Humans are not more evolved than chimpanzees or rats or puppy dogs or earthworms or pond scum.
The test for evolution is change over time and just good enough to reproduce before dying.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Faith, posted 06-11-2016 7:08 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 365 of 455 (786036)
06-14-2016 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by Faith
06-14-2016 10:21 PM


Re: Mutations are not alleles
Faith writes:
No it doesn't and if you understood the argument you'd know why it doesn't.
Unfortunately Faith, reality trumps any argument. It does not matter whether or not anyone understands your argument when reality as been proving you wrong for billions of years.
The mechanism that increases diversity is mutation.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Faith, posted 06-14-2016 10:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 374 of 455 (786055)
06-15-2016 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by PaulK
06-15-2016 10:18 AM


Re: Once again now, evolution of new phenotypes REQUIRES loss of genetic diversity
PaulK writes:
It's pretty unlikely that you'd get the exact mutations needed even to restore the lost phenotypic variations (of a typical case - phenotypic changes are not essential to speciation) let alone restore interfertility.
In addition we have documented outwardly similar results and even lost and regained functions but where the mutations leading to the changes were entirely different than the original or even other visibly similar sub populations. One great example even discussed in this very thread are the desert pocket mice where the dark sub-populations are genetically different.
Edited by jar, : fix attribution

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by PaulK, posted 06-15-2016 10:18 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by PaulK, posted 06-15-2016 10:26 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
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