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Member (Idle past 1424 days) Posts: 1495 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Methodological Naturalism | |||||||||||||||||||
Silent H Member (Idle past 5850 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
quote: Woohoo! I couldn't have said it better, though I have been trying to for the last couple of days. I hope Steve reads your post and is convinced. I will certain be lifting it for my own use in future replies. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5850 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
quote: The history of a failed discovery is at first people claim "you are crazy", then finally "we told you you were wrong all along." Do not delude yourself into thinking that just because you have an unpopular theory you must have the right one.
quote: Which I have spent the most time of my life researching professionally and for fun. So now I have to listen to you tell me what you learned 30+ years ago and swallow it hook line and sinker? Sorry Steve. I am unsure where you were taught, but even 35 years ago they were teaching basics of research methods which we use today in science classes. If your professors of science were saying something else, then you did not get your money's worth. If you did not change your mind after getting out of class then perhaps you are not reading the right material. However, one must question this claim on your part since you are decrying modern scientific methods. This must mean that you have seen your original PoS professors were downright wrong if they were teaching anything other than MN. For all this research you are decrying is at least as old as that.
quote: You cannot test a method against itself. You must test it over time against other methods. Given the MN has replaced the tenets of your H-D methodology centuries ago, one has to question why you found yours "correct".
quote: This is contrary to reason. Your explanations are circular, even if you bring in dark matter or energy. I mean is this dark matter calculated to be in people? No. Does it have any contact with people? No. Does it have some theoretical connection to the behavior or thoughts by people (other than the physicists who postulate it based on calculations and expectations)? No. Other than suddenly asserting here is something we do not understand and therefore it must explain what I need explaining wayyyyyyyyyy ovvvvverrrrr heeeeeeeere, it makes no sense at all.
quote: You have not shown that any other religions do provide fitness, much less what the proper mechanism is for that fitness. I should also note that the cargo cults did stay alive so how do you know they didn't live better than they used to after creating their religion? You are ignoring the obvious and in order to come to your opinion. And what's more you are avoiding the question... what does Occam's razor say about this? We can see that people made a religion regarding (ascribed extra characteristics to) something they did not understand. We know children do this same sort of thing all of the time until they are taught how to ask questions and understand the world around them. We know that Xian scientists claim that prayer gets them along just as well as medicine... but it does not. The simplest mechanism for this behavior is the anthropological one. Creating a class of entities with all sorts of diverse characteristics and powers (particularly when they have to take on ad hoc characteristics) is not in keeping with Occam's razor. You can state it is your opinion that you are right about demons all you want. You can even claim that the unpopularity of your position makes you believe that you are probably right. But you CANNOT claim that Occam's razor will support you in this endeavor. To do so involves completely circular reasoning. If we can agree on this, then we are getting somewhere. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5850 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
quote: I'm glad you admit it is you that does not understand. I have not said that these methods are in conflict. I am saying that... and have said so repeatedly... that H-D is insufficient, or inefficient, compared with MN. H-D may be an okay way to scout possible areas of research. But at the end of the day, before claims to knowledge about a theory are made, the research must be conducted according to MN protocols. If you agree that MN is the stricter protocol, then you have no reason to complain if it is the FINAL method of assessment.
quote: You are correct, as long as humans are infected by physical parasites. But you not only have invented the idea that all people who are mistaken, are instead infected, you have also invented some nonmaterial parasite (to explain the lack of material evidence for your claim) called "demons".
quote: I was never under the pretense that we are the most intelligent, powerful beings on the earth. I said people, just like any other animal, are limited and so can make mistakes. You are the one that seems to feel we are so powerful that the only explanation for error, is even more powerful entities... demons. But oh it's not even that simple... You then move into ad hoc explanations that when people think as you like they are counseled by powerful entities called angels or Gods, but when they don't think as you do then they are possessed by demons. You have given no consistent way to test which way around any particular thought can be considered counseled by angel or demon. Nor have you done anything but assert some connection from demons to dark matter/energy.
quote: Uh, I do and I did. You have asserted that since the evidence did not turn out as you like, I must have done it wrong. You have also denied clear data which contradicts your occam's razor assertion. If you have something more than assertion, made to support your initial theory, I would love to see it. Specifically with regard to the aztecs and cargo cults. They were simply mistaken. It's just that easy. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5850 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
quote: I answered this in another thread, but I will repeat it here (not sure which you'll get to first). Actually I wish I had seen this one first because your comments here had my jaw hit the floor. If you are a degreed scientist, and a student of philosophy of science, and had numerous scientific articles published, why on earth do you need a reference as to how to conduct scientific research? This seems bizarre to me, and kind of needless since I have given examples of how to tighten some of the studies you talked about, and there are discussions on MN on this site. Do you really need my help in this? holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5850 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
quote: You have got to be kidding me. For a guy that said he just realized what MN is and what it's relation is to H-D (after reading a post by MrH which happens to reflect my own position), how on earth can you make the above statement? If it makes you feel better to think of me as some uneducated clout, making things up as I go along, you go right ahead... hypocrite. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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