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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2357 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Debunking the Evolutionary God of 'Selection' | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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How about you stop posting preachy inane gibberish?
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 885 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined:
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STUDY GENETICS evolutionists and stop this insanity of yours !!! You say this repeatedly and include admonishments to study all other areas of science, but I see not one indication that YOU, yourself, have taken even an introductory course on genetics or even in a general scientific subject. What is your scientific background as far as training and experience? ABE: Example "STUDY MEDICINE, study NUCLEAR RADIATION, etc.. STUDY GENETICS" Nuclear radiation???? Have you studied nuclear radiation??? /ABE HBD Edited by herebedragons, : No reason given.Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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Why are you responding to a post that has absolutely nothing to do with you and your argument? This post was not about you and did not include you. You are just posting crap to post crap.
When are the moderators actually going to start moderating? Follow the line of posts here. His rant has nothing to do with what I posted. My post was to Phat, criticizing Phat's understanding of probability. Davidjay jumps in with a completely of subject rant. None of his responses to me have had anything to do with what I posted. Please someone rein this guy in. All he does is post word salad and preaching. Enough is enough.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 885 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined:
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Come on Theodoric, had you studied NEUROPARASITOLOGY, QUANTUM BIOLOGY and ORGANIC ELECTRONICS you would understand the relevance of his comments, but as such, his intellect is so vastly superior to ours that we just cannot communicate on the same astral plane.
HBD (one of the intellectually inferior) Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2505 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined:
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Davidjay writes: bluegenes writes: Davidjay writes: bluegenes writes: Davidjay writes:
Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection? Evolutionists admit their so called mutations all come about at random, but they seem to have deified their natural selction of this so called beneficial mutations with a non random deity called "SELECTION'.So lets logically and systematically debunk this deity of theirs.... Selection is your god, not mine. Please defend your faith and state something about your beloved nonrandom selector who selects living mutations that somehow someway are already viable and ALIVE.Ahhh you dont say your god brings them to life, you dsay your god keeps them alive by not killing them into extinction with HER environmental conditions. OK, we are making progress, you say evolution is a SUSTAINER and PROVIDER of magic mutations that are alive and viable, and 'She' or MOTHER NATURE or a divine environment keeps them alive by her conditions, and selects and sustains these exploding mutational new life forms. Sort of like a radiation scientist picking out new mutated life forms that are radioactive that aren;t effected by a radioactive environment.... Im not buying it, or ready to honor your god of SELECTION and her SUSTAINING ABILITIES of what is already alive. Now we are making progress.... as logically speaking evolutionists can not say selection gives anything LIFE, it only supposedly sustains or selects life forms, or sustains life forms under her wings..... Ahah, I knew I or we would further this debate and come to the basic premise of evolutionary theory or lies. Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection? Variability is an excuse by evolutionists to try and give evolution credibility.Variability as in mankind, is limited to the superficial, as with leg length etc etc etc etc etc... and more etc. Its variety but we do NOT get a new species or apelike creature from our combinations via mating STUDY GENETICS evolutionists and stop this insanity of yours !!! Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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afer Dawkins' "ignorance is no crime"
I have been giving this a bit a thought and would like to break it down slightly differently: Five types of people that don't understand how evolution works:
The more I read this "Davidjay" postings the more I become convinced he is in the 4th category, not really interested in real, honest debate, certainly not interested in learning. Pity. I'm starting a new thread with this topic. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2357 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
I wonder why evolutionists cant explain their own theory and get upset when people dont just accept it hook, line and sinker, by FAITH. Why cant they answer questions, why are they so sensitive, and get so angry. If someone doesn;t understand their double speak, why dont they just use scientific principles to explain their theory or theory of a theory or a theory of a theory of a theory.
. . So come on evolutionists dig deep and explain how sellection is alive and picking out life forms that are already alive. Tell us how variety and recombination is a mutational change rather than a God Gifted variety change. Ready begin now. Stick to the subject !!! PST) Inbreeding is not mutational change nor selective change. Its man made manipulation. I think I know why ? Theres nothing to the theory ! Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.. The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK. .
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Variability as in mankind, is limited to the superficial, ... What limits it? You've been asked this several times yet refuse to answer. It is dishonest to repeat something that has been questioned without providing substantiation.
... as with leg length etc etc etc etc etc... and more etc. Its variety but we do NOT get a new species or apelike creature from our combinations via mating As noted in Message 34 and repeated in Message 59 you were caught espousing false information. To wit, you claimed:
But of course we know there are no beneficial mutations that have ever existed that lived and created a new species. ... My response the second time was:
Polyploid mutations create new species. The species live, and therefore natural selection means the mutation is beneficial. QED This falsifies your claim, and you have not defended it. Now I expect you will dodge rather than be honest and admit that you were wrong. Now I notice that you have moved the goal-posts to claim that no new ape has evolved. Thanks for proving my prediction correct. This helps me categorize you and the worth of your posts. Polyploidy is rare in more complex species, but partial polyploidy has been known to occur (see wiki: Polyploid). More commonly this results is sections of duplications of DNA, where one copy can continue to do what it has done and the other copy is free to mutate and evolve without necessarily impacting the individuals involved. This is a neutral mutation that can then be used as a foundation for later development of new traits. Basic evolution 101. It works, it is real. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2357 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
The Lord limits it, and reality shows it as their has never ever been a beneficial mutation.
But thanks for admitting that you think variability is a mutational change, and want to fight to the hilt on that premise. I repeat, I repeat inbreeding does not produce a new dog species. You can try and try Raz, as others have, but those wierd dogs are still just dogs. Such a desperate desperate ploy Raz. Read, I have answered this question many times, and you still refuse to study genetics. Recombination brings on variety but it never ever has produced a new species. Mutations, kill, radiation kills, cancer misreproduction kills...... there have been no beneficial mutations, and you suggesting that there must be some kind of chance somewhere sometime even given enough shakes of the dice is literally a desperate desperate ploy. Study genetics, study recessive and dominant genes and charasteristics.... The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK. .
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I wonder why evolutionists cant explain their own theory and get upset when people dont just accept it hook, line and sinker, by FAITH. Why cant they answer questions, why are they so sensitive, and get so angry. If someone doesn;t understand their double speak, why dont they just use scientific principles to explain their theory or theory of a theory or a theory of a theory of a theory. This has happened, and is happening, over and over again and you are just unwilling or unable to respond to the content of the posts. I wonder why creationists can't address the content of the posts that are replied to them and instead just talk shit and preach the whole time. Why can't they have an intelligent conversation?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I wonder why evolutionists cant explain their own theory ... Whatever gave you this bizarre idea ... if you are asking honestly (rather than trolling). Fortunately there are resources where you can check your claim against actual reality.
Welcome to Evolution 101! is a website set up to teach evolution to those who are willing to learn. I can also give you a quick "cliff-notes" version:
(1) The process of evolution involves changes in the composition of hereditary traits, and changes to the frequency of their distributions within breeding populations from generation to generation, in response to ecological challenges and opportunities. The process of evolution (also called "micro-evolution" in biology) is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis.
(2) Speciation is the process whereby parent populations are divided into two or more reproductively isolated, independently evolving, daughter populations. The process of speciation with the subsequent formation of a branching genealogy of descent from common ancestor populations (also called "macro-evolution" in biology) is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis.
(3) The Theory of Evolution (ToE), stated in simple terms, is that the process of evolution, and the process of speciation, are sufficient to explain the diversity of life as we know it, from the fossil record, from the genetic record, from the historic record, and from everyday record of the life we observe in the world all around us. If you have questions feel free to ask. I can also expand this into more complex steps to go into these processes in greater depth if you so wish, but this is the is the bare-bones nutshell description. Having explained the theory so easily, it is obvious that your assertion is once again a false claim. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The Lord limits it, and reality shows it as their has never ever been a beneficial mutation. But thanks for admitting that you think variability is a mutational change, and want to fight to the hilt on that premise. I repeat, I repeat inbreeding does not produce a new dog species. You can try and try Raz, as others have, but those wierd dogs are still just dogs. Such a desperate desperate ploy Raz. Moving the goal-posts again. Thanks for proving your dishonesty. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2505 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Davidjay writes: bluegenes writes: Davidjay writes: bluegenes writes: Davidjay writes: bluegenes writes:
Selection is your god, not mine. Please defend your faith and state something about your beloved nonrandom selector who selects living mutations that somehow someway are already viable and ALIVE. Davidjay writes:
Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection? Evolutionists admit their so called mutations all come about at random, but they seem to have deified their natural selction of this so called beneficial mutations with a non random deity called "SELECTION'.So lets logically and systematically debunk this deity of theirs.... Ahhh you dont say your god brings them to life, you dsay your god keeps them alive by not killing them into extinction with HER environmental conditions. OK, we are making progress, you say evolution is a SUSTAINER and PROVIDER of magic mutations that are alive and viable, and 'She' or MOTHER NATURE or a divine environment keeps them alive by her conditions, and selects and sustains these exploding mutational new life forms. Sort of like a radiation scientist picking out new mutated life forms that are radioactive that aren;t effected by a radioactive environment.... Im not buying it, or ready to honor your god of SELECTION and her SUSTAINING ABILITIES of what is already alive. Now we are making progress.... as logically speaking evolutionists can not say selection gives anything LIFE, it only supposedly sustains or selects life forms, or sustains life forms under her wings..... Ahah, I knew I or we would further this debate and come to the basic premise of evolutionary theory or lies. Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection? Variability is an excuse by evolutionists to try and give evolution credibility.Variability as in mankind, is limited to the superficial, as with leg length etc etc etc etc etc... and more etc. Its variety but we do NOT get a new species or apelike creature from our combinations via mating STUDY GENETICS evolutionists and stop this insanity of yours !!! Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection? I wonder why evolutionists cant explain their own theory and get upset when people dont just accept it hook, line and sinker, by FAITH. Why cant they answer questions, why are they so sensitive, and get so angry. If someone doesn;t understand their double speak, why dont they just use scientific principles to explain their theory or theory of a theory or a theory of a theory of a theory.. So come on evolutionists dig deep and explain how sellection is alive and picking out life forms that are already alive. Tell us how variety and recombination is a mutational change rather than a God Gifted variety change. Ready begin now. Stick to the subject !!! PST) Inbreeding is not mutational change nor selective change. Its man made manipulation. I think I know why ? Theres nothing to the theory ! Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection?
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Davidjay writes: Variability is an excuse by evolutionists to try and give evolution credibility. Variability is produced by mutations. Natural selection causes certain variations to be more common or less common in a population.\
Variability as in mankind, is limited to the superficial, as with leg length etc etc etc etc etc... and more etc. Its variety but we do NOT get a new species or apelike creature from our combinations via mating We do get new species through the accumulation of mutations over several generations.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I repeat, I repeat inbreeding does not produce a new dog species. You can try and try Raz, as others have, but those wierd dogs are still just dogs. It always amuses me when creationists say things like this and think it is devastating for the theory of evolution. If they actually studied evolution, they should quickly find that this is a prediction of evolution -- that the descendants of dogs will always be the descendants of dogs. And the other thing that is amusing is that the variability of dogs shows that mutations occur, we can document them and we can tie a lot of them to specific traits as a result of the strict breeding records used for breeding dogs ... which are bred (a) to maintain stasis for a "recognized breed" or (b) to produce a new breed, which is often done by back breeding with other breed (there has never been any intention of producing a new species). What evolution says is that nested hierarchies will occur as a result of speciation events. When multiple speciation events occur, a pattern is formed that looks like a branching bush or tree: the tree of descent from common ancestor populations. Each branching point is a node for a clade of the parent species at the node point and all their descendants, and with multiple speciation events we see a pattern form of clades branching from parent ancestor species and nesting within larger clades branching from older parent ancestor species.
Where A, B, C and G represent speciation events and the common ancestor populations of a clade that includes the common ancestor species and all their descendants: C and below form a clade that is part of the B clade, B and below form a clade that is also part of the A clade; G and below also form a clade that is also part of the A clade, but the G clade is not part of the B clade. The process of forming a nested hierarchy by descent of new species from common ancestor populations, via the combination of anagenesis and cladogenesis, and resulting in an increase in the diversity of life, is sometimes called macroevolution. This is often confusing, because there is no additional mechanism of evolution involved, rather this is just the result of looking at evolution over many generations and different ecologies. So if "A" is dogs, then all the descendants are still members of the "dog" clade. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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