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Author Topic:   evolution?
Percy
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Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 49 of 73 (8449)
04-11-2002 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by mark24
04-10-2002 9:45 AM


Perhaps Cobra just sited the wrong source. It sounds very much like something Michael Behe might say. Certainly it is precisely the opposite of Richard Dawkins' well known position on ID.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by mark24, posted 04-10-2002 9:45 AM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Mister Pamboli, posted 04-11-2002 1:16 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 51 by mark24, posted 04-11-2002 1:37 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 52 of 73 (8456)
04-11-2002 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by mark24
04-11-2002 1:37 PM


Right, I understand. I was just trying to offer an additional possibility in the same vein.
--Percy
[This message has been edited by Percipient, 04-11-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by mark24, posted 04-11-2002 1:37 PM mark24 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 59 of 73 (8582)
04-15-2002 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Cobra_snake
04-15-2002 3:09 PM



Cobra_snake writes:
It shall never be done. The problem is, it is impossible to PROVE that a certain structure cannot evolve. However, when certain structures appear to be difficult to explain under a Darwinian model, one has every right to become skeptical of the notion of evolution. It's actually pretty significant that evolutionists can't even create a just-so story to explain some structures!
The reason scientists accept evolution is not because they went down a list of biological structures and found reasonable scenarios for their evolutionary development. Developing such scenarios can be a fascinating exercise and can result in powerful insights for guiding genetic research, but they are not proof of or evidence of evolution. They are simply the application of evolutionary principles to solving and teasing out possible evolutionary pathways.
And just because we work out a reasonable scenario for some biological structure does not mean it really happened that way. There's no way to know what *really* happened because DNA doesn't leave fossils behind. The only evidence we have is the DNA we find in living organisms and sometimes in well-preserved dead ones (frozen mammoths in Siberia come to mind), and everything else is analysis, deduction and inference.
The primary evidence for evolution is the same today as it was nearly 200 years ago. The fact that evolution had taken place was first recognized in the early 19th century when the fossil record of change over time contained within the geologic column was uncovered.
By the way, did you realize your statement, "It is impossible to PROVE that a certain structure cannot evolve," is precisely what evolutionists have been trying to tell Behe and his followers for years? (Naturally by "PROVE" you really mean "present persuasive evidence")
Even worse for IDers, there are no rules restricting God to performing only supernatural acts. Even Creationists accept that a creature could evolve a thicker coat of fur, but just because it could have happened naturally doesn't mean it didn't really happen through divine intervention. Once you start inferring forces for which you have no evidence, the possibilities are limited only by your imagination. Your car started this morning the first try - was it normal everyday physics and chemistry, or a miracle? I flick my lighter. Perhaps the spark was sufficient to light the flame, or perhaps not and God intervened for me and saved me the trouble of flicking again. Who could know?
If the appearance of evolution in the geologic column is really just a succession of divine miracles, then anything that happens anywhere could just as easily be a divine miracle. With no way to differentiate, since divine intervention never leaves any evidence, it is an idea without any predictive, and therefore also without any scientific, value.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Cobra_snake, posted 04-15-2002 3:09 PM Cobra_snake has not replied

  
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