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Author | Topic: The Dark Mountain Project: Secularism Gets Sober | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I read an interesting pamphlet...(not so much a book) called The dark Mountain Project.
Tangle--you and some others have criticized the fundementalists and charismatic-loons (such as myself) into a category of negative thinking, disaster-hoping miscreants who are depressed about their own lives and who prefer fantasy over reality. I just wanted you to know that there are some serious thinkers out there who have educations rivaling your own and who are most certainly not religious. (Faith, you also may find this interesting. I urge you to give their efforts serious consideration. Fixing the planet is not so simple as abolishing bronze age myths...in fact, should any of this happen, these beliefs will only get stronger. ) They too warn of a coming apocalyptic event (or series of events) and present their case here. This is Chapter One, and I won't bother quoting any more of their site...go and examine it for yourself or do as they predict that you will and bury your head in the sand, along with the rest of civilized society.
Walkingf On Lava quote:Now tell m,e that these authors are also nuts! If so, I would accuse you of being overly unrealistic and clinging to your own fragile belief in society.(without God) Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I will have to read and research it a bit more, but im almost late for work so it will have to be in tomorrows pile.
Here is one sentence that jumped out at me, though.
quote: Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
From the standpoint of a believer, I can say that if we do have end times events, (which Tangle argues would simply be the natural fall of one civilization in the lineage of many) it would not be directly caused by a supernatural Satan so much as it would be, according to "them" the natural error of the human mind to fully grasp its own demise and thus cause it.
They seek to warn society of the path we are blindly heading..../quite similar to the apologists minus the need for Jesus and salvation (and communion with a saner mind)Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: While it is true that much time, money and effort could be said to be wasted in the buildings, there are many people in life who have done much to bring about a better world who have been educated through the church. One such notable man of influence was Romano Guardini. He reflects: The countryside where I live is littered with ancient churches, I have three in my tiny village. They would have cost poor people an enormous amount in time, effort and money over a millennium to build and maintain and in the process built rich, powerful and divisive institutions that held back the progress of society.quote:...AZPaul3 would no doubt claim that the reason is obvious: God does not exist. This simplistic explanation has nothing to stand on apart from the modern rationale that evidence of absence equates to absence of evidence. Tangle writes: I believe that for some of us at least, (men such as Romano Guardini) the study and meditation of God as enriched their minds and led them into further sacred and secular studies both. One other point which I wish to address is your supposed indifference to even thinking about God. Philip Yancey expressed it this way:
If that effort had been put into building schools hospitals and our secular institutions for the good of the people instead of the worship of imaginary gods, our society would be in a far better state. Yancey writes: I marvel at a God who puts himself at our mercy, as it were, allowing himself to be quenched and grieved, and even forgotten. Reading the Old Testament convinces me that this human tendency-indifference taken to a lethal extreme-bothers God more than any other. Gracious to doubters and a pursuer of willful unbelievers, God finds himself stymied, and even enraged, by those who simply put him out of mind. God reacts like any spurned lover who finds his phone calls unreturned and his Valentines tossed aside unopened. (...)I used to jump out of bed as soon as I woke up. Now I lie there in the quiet and invite God into my day, not as a participant in my life or an item on a checklist but as the hub of all that will happen that day. I want God to become the central reality so that I am as aware of God as I am of my own moods and desires.Yancey, Philip. Reaching for the Invisible God (pp. 202-203). Zondervan. Kindle Edition. This central focus on God every day causes me to study a plethora of different things, many of them totally secular. (which you would argue is normal, of course) The Dark Mountain Project is basically secular and, as Theo pointed out, a bit New Age. It is insightful to a degree, however. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Our small Anglican church provides about 50% of the funding for a home for young women in Uganda who would otherwise be in the street, we support a library in Ethiopia and a hospital in Kampala. We just had an event as a fundraiser for a seniors day program, the local hospital foundation and a local food bank. We had another fundraiser for the local humane society. They probably pass out condoms to teenagers! On a serious note, I have seen evidence of the usefulness of secular organizations. I just am stymied how they feel that the church isnt as useful. I think they see us the way the Televangelists portray us as. (themselves) There is a lot of Christianity...likely the most useful of us....who remain out of the spotlight and unseen. Just what have any of your local secular outfits done lately?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theodoric was right--it is a New Age manifesto. What turns me off, but likely would mildly intrigue you all, is the idea that humanity is not central to the future, and that storytelling is the basic art.
DMP writes: THE EIGHT PRINCIPLES OF UNCIVILISATIONWe must unhumanize our views a little, and become confident As the rock and ocean that we were made from.’ Humans are not the point and purpose of the planet. Our art will begin with an attempt to step outside the human bubble. By careful attention, we will reengage with the non-human world. jar writes: Of course not. These things *must* happen. The solution is to love God and love your neighbor. I might add that knowing God is a priority, but you will be unable to understand this basic bit...unless perhaps you might believe that in knowing our neighbor, we thus know God. New Age mumbo jumbo is very close to the Christianity that I believe in, yet miles apart. Is there even a single example of Jesus or God preventing any disaster or social breakdown? You say Christianity is about what you do. (not what you believe) In that regard, the Dark Mountain New Agers likely would agree. They, like Stile, would eliminate knowing God as a necessary first step and would advocate sharing with each other and loving each other. I fear, however, that without the Holy Spirit it is destined to fail.
Are there not numerous examples of religious fervor causing disasters and social breakdowns? yes, many. My question would be how to tell apart a crowd based on obsessive fearful groupthink(authoritarianism) versus a crowd of individuals with no groupthink, varied beliefs, and a shared desire to simply bond with each other. The question is this: If a Holy Spirit exists and desires to commune with humans, which crowd would He,She, or It likely reside in?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: Why should that bother you? You don't even believe that God exists. What is this Phat? This idiot thinks he knows how god feels. There is nothing wrong with people who believe in God and who struggle to understand Him. A wrong answer is better than no answer at all.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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