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Author | Topic: the big lie: evolution, the beasts: darwin, hitler and nero. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
CG writes: Cristian I will indulge you only because I am a believer and I understand that you are either a troll who has no interest in your audience or you are a believer who is zealous yet immature in the faith. I suspect that you are immature in the faith. I see that AZPaul3 has addressed this somewhat.
who made Christianity and why? who made the old testament and why? you don't believe in Lord Jesus, so someone lied and made the new testament for an evil reason, according to your opinion. those who lied, they believed in evolution? or other gods?I apologize for the tone, I have to make a point. AZPaul3 writes:
I get challenged and laughed at by AZPaul3 also, but I respect the challenge as a way to more fully define my own thoughts on these issues.
You're the one who came rushing in here with your laundry list of complaints and assertions. Do you have any resources for any of this:
Each point in your diatribe, each "fact" you give - show us the source. How do you know these are true? What evidence do you have that attests to their veracity? Finally, please answer us this question: Are you here to discuss differences on these issues with those of different minds or are you here to preach your creed to the heathens? CG writes: Well I know this is true in politics. I prefer to phrase it like this: Some people repeat what they have been told by other sourses who also repeat what they heard on Fox News. My critics accuse me of repeating what I hear from Christian Apologists or other Christians, which I am guilty of, chiefly because we all largely agree on scriptural interpretation and the interpretations that many raise here, mainly from atheists and critically thinking Episcopalians who tell me to *throw God Away* are ludicrous to me. I think that they surely must be out of touch. some people mime intelligence, they don't know a single true fact about us, about life. I try and discuss differences when I write here. I do layout my beliefs, however. What are yours?
The Body of Christ and the headless body of humans running after evidence, self-actualization, and other hogwash. But eno0ugh about beliefs. This is a Science Forum and we are expected to bring evidence. In matters of Faith & Belief, I use more subjective experience and intuition but I know I can't do that here. The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
ringo, addressing CG writes: Of course not. You rely entirely on evidence. Which works ok for the age of the earth and origin of species, but not for the idea that God exists and is in communion with humanity should we want it. I will concede, however, that objective evidence is lacking. If what you're saying is the truth, then no, nobody here is searching for that.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
CG writes: You have to understand how unbelievers (or shall I call them nonbelievers and/or atheists) think by and large. tell me a god who can say this You and I can say to each other that there is only One God Who spoke to humanity through the inspired human writings of a particular set of books and that Jesus was in the Beginning and was and is alive today and that in fact, Jesus existed long before the book was even written down...and even before the oral traditions attempted to describe monotheism, relating to this One God Who is I AM, and Who was, is, and always shall be. I believe this stuff. I have had encounters with what I concluded was the supernatural realm. My critics will tell me that surely I was and am deluded since by their own "book" (the hypothetical book of evidence, logic, reason, and reality) God does not exist and only exists as a character in many human-derived writings and books. Thus, you can quote scripture to them and they will remain unimpressed and even slightly annoyed by your "trolling" behavior at this cherished science forum that they hang out at. As an administrator, I got on your case from day one not because you were doing something wrong apart from circumventing our Forum Guidelines but because I knew that your approach would not work and would merely clutter up a forum littered with many dead writings by many long departed Biblical creationists who continue to try and convince these science-based minds here at EvC that God is alive and that creationism is a valid alternative concept to Biological Evolution and the Scientific Method of Critical Thinking. The bottom line is that you need to get to know the audience before simply walking in and trying to teach them something that they have seen come at them a thousand times. That's all I was and am trying to say to you. We have very few creationists who even stay here. I myself am a believer and what I would call a Cosmological Creationist in that I believe that God(Yes, Jesus Father) was the uncaused first cause of the Universe (Multiverse?) and is the same yesterday, today, and forever in each and every alternate universe ever to be found. I argue here mainly to try and sharpen my own arguments. My critics and I rarely see eye to eye and likely never will. Nonetheless, I love them and get frustrated at them much as would happen in a large dysfunctional family. To them, I am perhaps a crazy, stubborn misguided Uncle. To me, many of them are perhaps the same thing.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
As long as we are in a hypothetical conversation about God and gods, I thought I would add my 2 cents. Hinduism seems to be a blend of pantheism and polytheism. There is a distinct and basic difference between a Creator of all seen and unseen and a Creator/creation of all seen and unseen. The idea itself incorporates our own pet god of the moment as an allowable part of Braman.
I know that you are a Zen Deist kinda guy, and I know that anglagard is a Spinoza Pantheist, so I will tread lightly out of respect while I do some research and hash out my own belief on this topic describing the Creator of all seen and unseen seen through the lens of Jesus vs being seen through other lenses.
There are many who can say this... Yes, and the Hindus would allow many to have their own god. Wrapping up the whole pantheistic model in their version of the Creator of all seen and unseen. The problem starts with Jesus. You can't just wrap Him up in a package with everyone else god and label it under the Supreme Pantheistic One. Christianity is exclusive rather than inclusive and it is why we have these arguments.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
CG writes: Allah is God, I don't know the teachings of Brahma, maybe is the same God There are many paths up the mountain, but only One God looking down each path at all of us and inviting us up. The reason that Jesus Christ is exclusive is that He is that image at the top. Jesus would have no problem with a person from any and all religions to come to Him. Without Jesus, Allah is an unknown God. The OT has many descriptions of many gods labeled as God, but God can only be known through the lens of Jesus Christ. As for the question of why I "believe" in evolution, I don't believe in evolution any more than I believe in gravity. I merely observe the effects. I believe that there is an uncaused first cause Who is knowable through Jesus Christ and that God(as I name this cause) created all that is seen and unseen. I am not interested in Biblical Creationism, however. It does not line up with science. The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
CG writes: Tell me more about Jesus. How often do you pray and commune with Him? I don't want to know any religion. God said to me when I was about 12 this: I am a disciple of His Son. I was in my home, in the sky appeared a light and a Voice told me some things, I have zero doubts about God's existence I'm curious...I love discussing spirituality with others, both believers and nonbelievers. I have a few questions.
The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Tangle writes: And Jesus has to be a Bronze Age myth, am I right? This has to be a driveby... He has hung in for 118 posts so far. If you talk to people nicely they sometimes stay around but if you dogpile everyone who comes here to challenge science, you get conclusive proof that you can attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. So, Tangled one, are you ready for another season of fishing? The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
I will have to respectfully disagree with you here. I have reason to believe that you are wrong in these assertions. There is so much that you don't understand about our dogmatic reasoning. Either that or you think that you *do* understand yet find it unbelievable.
The evidence shows that it doesn't make any difference whether there is a God or not - and that people who claim to be "in communion" with God are no more enlightened than anybody else. Oh? Show me this evidence. I have observed different conclusions.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
AZP3 writes: Truth! And that goes for all of us. Some things are not evident at first. If you don't question the answers then you are dead inside.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
ringo writes: If I am, in fact, the evidence then it is time to make a video, though you likely can't watch it at that library. I'm better at speaking than I am at writing, however. The evidence is you. The evidence shows that your "communion" has saddled you with an immense truckload of really, really stupid ideas.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
ringo, to CG writes: Do you think that the answers already exist and are simply waiting to be "discovered" by humanity or do you believe that as we learn we ourselves create the answers through critical thinking? Your answer will further explain your world view. Science is humble.Do you think you have all the answers? The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
All that Im doing is showing that your line of reasoning limits what Jesus actually told the Disciples about His character and reframes the reality as limiting Jesus to a character in a book and irrelevant when it suits you yet you have the audacity to charge me with ignoring what a character in a book says when it suits your argument. Stop calling bullshit on what is patently obvious. Surely your brain and the brain of so many others reframes the whole concept of religion and belief within the power of humans to change and redefine at whim. You call my belief BS simply because you wont consider it. And yet you claim that I ignore what He said to do....if only you could see what we were doing last night....you would take back your claim.
The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
ringo writes: I called bullshit on your claim that Christians are attacked more than any other religion. That is neither obvious nor even founded in fact. There are several articles online by different researchers that support my claim.
The Most Persecuted Religion in the World by Kelly James Clark, a Senior Research Fellow at the Kaufman Institute, Grand Valley State University. What evidence do you have that suggests otherwise? The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM.
The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18639 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
That is a good point, and I don't pretend to ignore the atrocities done "in the name of Christianity or Jesus" but I will defend the basic message due to the fact that I ascribe to the belief fully and likely would dismiss the actions by saying that though they were real Christians they were unchanged and not transformed. Not to say that we have been given this great gift fully either. Who knows? God may decide to bless the secular humanists and atheists with the Spirit despite the fact they dont believe He exists. Stranger things have happened and (I predict) will happen.
The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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