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Author Topic:   What is Gravity, how does it come about.
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 36 of 79 (96039)
03-30-2004 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Darwin Storm
03-30-2004 3:39 PM


They all use space-time as a construct, something to give our minds eye to view.
Space-time is the form of maths to hang Relativity on.
No one I have ever met except 'amateurs' believes that 'space' gets bent... only the signals [energy] are bent.
To believe that 'space-time' has any form of material existence is akin to believing in aether or flogiston.
Energy needs no 'medium' to allow it to cross the huge distances between the stars and us.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Percy, posted 03-30-2004 4:36 PM V-Bird has replied

  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 38 of 79 (96065)
03-30-2004 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Percy
03-30-2004 4:36 PM


I am not, I am merely pointing out an error in the 'vox populae' of the masses, because a lot of people repeat a falsehood, it will not make it real.
Please read the link...
http://www.ling.su.se/staff/hartmut/uhr.htm

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 Message 37 by Percy, posted 03-30-2004 4:36 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Percy, posted 03-30-2004 9:28 PM V-Bird has replied

  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 39 of 79 (96067)
03-30-2004 5:34 PM


In particular this catches the eye...
''Some further confusion has been caused by the widespread practice of referring to the pseudo-space-time of Minkowski just as "space-time". This misleads one to think of it as a four dimensional manifold with three spatial dimensions to wich time is added as a fourth dimension. However, the fourth dimension in Minkowski space-time does not represent any real 'time', but an imaginary one, while the other dimensions are the three real dimensions of space.''
Please trust me on this, space-time really is just a construct, it works only because it gives form to something much harder to comprehend without it.

  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 40 of 79 (96069)
03-30-2004 5:36 PM


You MUST read Minkowski to understand how 'pseudo-space-time' is just a tool.

  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 41 of 79 (96073)
03-30-2004 5:52 PM



  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 42 of 79 (96078)
03-30-2004 6:01 PM


Conclusion?
It's a grid.
A grid in four dimensions, just like a graph is a two dimensional construct to allow you to plot movement, say a single point on a wheel, which when plotted forms a sine wave.
Now what is bent in that graph?
Is it the x and y axes?
No.
It is the path that is distorted not the axes...
The same applies in the Universe with energy, the grid remains un-bent or bowed, what is bent is all the stuff that you impose on the grid... the axes [all four of them] remain constant.
That is why it is relativistic, it only works for a single view point of that grid.

  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 43 of 79 (96084)
03-30-2004 6:44 PM


...and so, back to Gravitation...
Before we go too far we must all agree on certain things about gravity.
First we must separate it from 'G-force' or powered acceleration, that of say a motor car or fair-ground ride.
They are similar but NOT the same thing.
Yes?
Gravity acts on a body unlike anything else in that accelerates the body uniformly, we see this on earth as 32.1ft per/sec/sec.
Yes?
Gravity can 'bend' any energy anywhere in the known Universe.
Yes?
Gravity 'appears' to be associated with mass in some way.
Yes?
Gravity is an energy of some form.
Yes?
Please take the time to read and agree/disagree with the above.

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 Message 44 by crashfrog, posted 03-30-2004 7:07 PM V-Bird has replied

  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 45 of 79 (96100)
03-30-2004 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by crashfrog
03-30-2004 7:07 PM


Errr, he did separate them, he just didn't know the mechanism, we now do.
Acceleration is the effect of power [energy] applied to a resisting surface or body. Your car accelerates because power is sent to the wheels and then to the road which resists its' turning, a rocket uses its propulsion against the resistance of the atmosphere and gravity to accelerate to E.V.
What is 'deformed space'?
[This message has been edited by V-Bird, 03-30-2004]

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V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 47 of 79 (96109)
03-30-2004 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by crashfrog
03-30-2004 7:47 PM


Are you familiar with the term Co-efficient of drag?
Your question... they would notice only subtle differences to do with environment, and 1G, strangely is not the same as the amount of gravitation they would feel on earth, similar but not the same.

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 48 by crashfrog, posted 03-30-2004 7:58 PM V-Bird has replied

  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 49 of 79 (96115)
03-30-2004 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by crashfrog
03-30-2004 7:58 PM


Yes.
No, it is not Gravity, it is inertia that holds them in place.
No, 1G is less than the gravitation experienced on Earth.

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V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 50 of 79 (96116)
03-30-2004 8:08 PM


What is deformed space?

  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 52 of 79 (96120)
03-30-2004 8:11 PM


Let's see if your simple maths are as good as you make out.
1bar = 1atm...
Yes or No.

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V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 54 of 79 (96128)
03-30-2004 8:25 PM


You never seem willing to answer questions, Why is that?
We'll make it 3 questions answered [even if not to your complete satisfaction] for 3 questions answered from you.
What is deformed space?
Is 1bar = to 1 atm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by crashfrog, posted 03-30-2004 8:34 PM V-Bird has replied

  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 56 of 79 (96131)
03-30-2004 8:35 PM


The next thing is, are you aware of Einsteins micro-gravity effects on accelerating bodies [as in your example] and there absence with a resting body on the Earth...

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by crashfrog, posted 03-30-2004 8:41 PM V-Bird has replied

  
V-Bird
Member (Idle past 5616 days)
Posts: 211
From: Great Britain
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 57 of 79 (96132)
03-30-2004 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by crashfrog
03-30-2004 8:34 PM


'' Obviously not. But one atm = .987 bar. That's the same quantity expressed in different units. ''
You must have mis-read google... 1 bar is LESS than 1 Atmosphere... 14.5PSI against 14.7PSI
Did you see my answer to why there is a difference between inertial G and gravitation?
Einstein took us a good way... just not quite far enough.
[This message has been edited by V-Bird, 03-30-2004]

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Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by crashfrog, posted 03-30-2004 8:42 PM V-Bird has not replied
 Message 62 by crashfrog, posted 03-30-2004 8:48 PM V-Bird has replied

  
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