What Makes a person a - insert religion here -:

How makes someone a 'true ' < believer in a specific religion > . Who is to judge if
someone belongs to a certain religion or not?I am seeing that a number of Christians say that Jehovah Witnesses are of Satan. I see
an equal number of Christians say that Mormons are not Christians. I see some say that
Roman Catholics are not Christians. I also see some Roman Catholics say that certain denominations of Protestants are not Christians.It is not just Christians that this phenomena occurs in. There was some yelling by some Muslims proclaiming that Shiites are not true Muslims, and some Shiite Muslims that proclaimed that Sunnis are not true Muslims.The same happens in Hinduism too.Who is to judge what sects belongs to what religion?How about putting this into faith and belief?

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

The meanings of words are determined by social convention. In the case of these various religions, different groups disagree as to what should be the conventions. Thus part of the public debate becomes an attempt for one group to impose its conventions on the others.

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Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

quote:

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It is not just Christians that this phenomena occurs in. There was some yelling by some Muslims proclaiming that Shiites are not true Muslims, and some Shiite Muslims that proclaimed that Sunnis are not true Muslims.

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And not just Shiite and Sunnis, either. There are Christians on this very board who will insist that they have a better understanding of what a true Muslim is than even a Muslim.

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"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

My own position is that someone is either a Christian or they are not. There are no half-way Christians or nearly-Christians. That being the case a person who is a Christian occupies a territory about which a non-Christian has no insight or understanding. That fact alone is sufficient to give at least some some insight into whether or not another is or isn't a Christian. For a Christian can be expected to display some markers indicating that they too have some awareness of the territory they too occupy.I wouldn't go anywhere near as far to say that a particular Mormon or a Jehovahs Witness or a Roman Catholic is not a Christian. Whilst the teachings behind these systems are not Christian teachings (no more than an 'engine' without pistons or a crankshaft is not an engine) that doesn't have to stand in the way of God calling and them responding to that call. They can be saved despite their Religion not because if it. That they continue in their Religion, strikes me personally as unusual, but might simply be a result of them not fully understanding the workings of the gospel.
Understanding the workings of the gospel is not, fortunately, a prerequisite for gospel working on you. I say unusual because I was Religiously, a relative clean slate on my own conversion - others have more baggage than me to deal with.I know Roman Catholics who still consider themselves Roman Catholics (whatever that is). But their notions about both RC doctrine and Biblical doctrine is hazy so there considering themselves RC's seems to arise out of a certain sense of loyalty and/or force of a lifetimes habit.Yet they display the markers of being Christians. So, there are people who I am sure are Christians, people who I am sure are not. And people about who I don't know one way or the other.

Black and white thinking, such as this, is a common characteristic of all kinds of fundamentalism.

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Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

I think the problem stemms from the idea that there is some kind of universal meaning of the word "Christian", "Moslem", "Hindu", etc that unfortunatly no one actually has an agreed upon definition.Also, sometimes the definition is very subjective such as being based on what a person does rather than what they believe. (ie. soandso isn't a Christian because they drink/smoke/have sex/etc)Anyone who claims that they can define that universal meaning of a religious adherant is therefore most likely just defining it for their own purposes for the exclusion of someone else. This type of arbitrary definitions should be either challanged or ignored if they can't produce their reasoning outside of their own subjective worldview.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

So, you are saying that the Jehovah Witnesses, as a denomination, is not christian. Is that correct?

Guilty.Nowhere in my Catholic upbringing did they say that I have to follow every letter of the doctrine to be considered a Catholic.Nowhere does Jesus teach that you have to follow every letter of his teachings to be considered a christian.I went through the sacrament of Confirmation, literally confirming my Catholicism and thus making me one. My whole family is Catholic and I was raised Catholic, I am definately a christian and through traditions and my life I should be considered Catholic. I'm a christian because of my faith in christ, not because of any label I have or doctrine I follow.Edited by Catholic Scientist, : added subtitle

I would say that there is no one possible answer to your question and that in reality there are atleast two different and unique questions buried in it.The first is "What makes a person XYZ religion?"That will vary greatly from religion to religion and sect to sect. Most have some form of basic minimal belief standards and some rite of initiation that if the person affirms a belief in those minimal belief standards and goes through the rite or rites of initiation he is eligible to call himself a member of that religion and sect.As an example, to be a Christian you must acknowledge the things mentioned in at least the Nicene Creed. To be a member of one or another Christain Sects you must also pass through that sects initiation rights, and perhaps follow some additional rules related to that individual sect or even to the local chapter of the club.The second question that is inherent, intrinsic to your original question is the view from outside the individual. "Does some club, the ABC Sect of XYZ religion recognize other chapters of the club as belonging to the same overall club?"There you will find the answer varies from the most inclusionary to the most exclusionary. It will vary, in the case of my particular club which is called Christianity, from those like myself that say "Most anyone that says they are Christian and affirms that they believe in those items mentioned in the Nicene Creed is a member of the club", to the exclusionary position we see posted earlier in this thread where even the very originating chapters of the club are excluded from membership.The exclusionary position quickly reduces to the absurd with the overall club saying that some chapter is a member while that very chapter denies that the rest of the club is legitimately members.It really is that funny.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Why must you have to accept the Nicene Creed? The JW's don't, do they?How about the Mormons?Both of those sects claim to be Christians. Who is to make the judgement that they are not?

You know, I don't know the answer to either of those. I did discuss the Nicene Creed with a friend who was a Mormon but that was long, long ago. At the time he did not say anything negative about the Nicene Creed and quite frankly the idea that he did not accept it didn't even come up. I've read the Book of Mormon and I never got the feeling that it discarded the Bible or any of the basic early Christian documents and was but a further revelation, but hopefully one of our Mormon members can speak to that issue.Again on the matter of JWs. Can't say. Again, it is a lack of knowledge on my part but I don't know anything in the Nicene Creed that they might not accept. Hopefully there too some JW member will step up and tell us what their position on the Nicene Creed is.For any who may not be familar with the Nicene Creed, here it is:

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

My very hazy recollection of my very nominal RC-ism (Baptism, first holy communion, confirmation forming the large bulk of the 10 or so times I stepped inside such a building) never led me to think otherwise.I don't hold that being a Catholic, Protestant, Fundamentalist... or any other such thing determines ones being a Christian or not. Nowhere does Jesus teach that NOT following ever letter of his teaching makes you a NOT non-Christian. (as an aside: it always trouble me when people insert the word 'try' onto all that Jesus said we are to 'do'. 'Do' means 'do' not 'try to do'. Try-to-do is plucked out of the air) I have no doubt that you are a Catholic. But that is not the issue. Are you a Christian? In Christ? For as much as I can gather it is being 'in Christ' that results in one being declared a Christian - not a Catholic. You would be one of those I refer to when I say "I do not know whether he is a Christian or not" (I say this in the hope that you will not take this as patronising - God knows for sure, I am only surmising from the data)"My faith in Christ".......which means what precisely? My own faith 'in Christ' would be summarized by him being the one that makes it possible for me to have a relationship with God. He that makes it possible for my sin to be covered. Possible for me to be considered righteous and clean and fit to come into his holy presence. He does it all - I can do nothing.RC says something else, which means faith-in-Christ is a different kind of faith in your book. As I understand it.As I understand RC (I don't know many intimately), Christ made the way to heaven open for us. But there is a stairs to be climbed. He opens the door - we must climb those stairs. As I understand it.That is not Christianity - that is Roman Catholicism. Quite a different thingEdited by iano, : No reason given.

You sure seem to be mighty picky about what's Christian and what's not.

Its not called the narrow gate for nothing Robin. Your summation in d'other thread I see as being plain and utter common sense. How many passed through THAT narrow gate.Get the picture?