Apparently, God hates Sweden now, along with America, Canada, and "fags"

I think you've articulated an exceptionally important point. One that as an atheist I find more than a bit troubling, in the sense that it appears to me to render expostulations "not to tar all Christians with the same brush" either disingenuous or well, special pleading. Phatboy (and I'm not singling him out except as an illustration), basically engaged in a "no true Scotsman" fallacy by proclaiming that Phelps and his ilk aren't really Christians. And yet, the silence of the mainstream Christian sects - who I'd think would be the first to roundly condemn someone so, erm, un-Christian - is thunderous. Remaining silent is equivalent, IMO, to tacit approval of the message. It doesn't matter how many "nice guys" (as Phatboy attempted to illustrate with his three pastors) there are among Christians, if they allow such a rabid voice to be heard without comment or censure. As an example, when Herrnstein et al, or worse J. Phillipe Rushton, came out with their racist pseudoscience, they were vocally condemned by the biological community (Herrnstein for sloppy science at best, and Rushton for outright racism). Why can't the Christians do the same? And I don't mean on message boards.

As do I. I've attempted to get feedback and/or initiate similar conversations with several of my Christian friends (all from mainstream sects, btw). However, although expressing to me their dislike of this kind of rhetoric, more-or-less shrug their shoulders (how does it go, "I am not my brother's keeper"? - but wasn't the guy trying to weasel out of something at that point?). Anyway, I'd love to have a good conversation over a beer or three on the subject with someone who's knowledgeable.

This may indeed be the case. If so, however, such condemnation is muted or overwhelmed by the raucus chorus of those who agree with Phelps & co, or who for whatever reason refuse to condemn a "fellow Christian's witness". It may be simply I "don't get out enough" - I'm not really in much contact with Christianity outside of my Catholic wife and message boards such as this one. If you tell me that other Christian groups are counter-propagandizing, I have no reason to doubt your statement. It hasn't trickled down to me, is all. Yep, them's the ones. Amazing how well funded they are by private donations, isn't it? Makes you wonder how many "True Believers" they attact at a few bucks a pop, doesn't it? I certainly understand your frustration. If it makes you feel any better, I tend to take people one-at-a-time, regardless of affiliation or belief structure. One of the advantages of being atheist, I suppose - no preconceptions (or at least, no religious ones ).

Thanks for the chuckle, Phat. Seriously, tho', I agree with Pecos. This topic to feels like something that really can't be explored in an Internet forum. It's opinion, and speculation, and feelings, and it needs face-to-face feedback and body language to assist in conveying meaning. The beer is merely to lubricate the synapses.