Was the Vote Hacked?

Crash, I've been to these counties and have done some business in that area of the world. Believe it or not, there are still some places in the south where people register Democrat or registered Democrat, but long ago started voting Republican in national elections.Why?It goes all the way back to the Civil War, and the democrats were the party of the south. It's just the way it is. The dems were never going to get these people to vote against Bush by nominating a northern liberal, period. Just won't happen.

These counties are in Florida. That's not really the "Deep South." Yeah, it's a little south, but Florida is the state that voted for Gore in 2000, so it stands to reason that they would go for Kerry, too.

Kerry wasn't liberal, but that's neither here nor there. According to the evidence, it probably did happen. How do you explain the descrepancies being only in the counties with optical machines?

Florida is a big state. There are parts of Florida as Deep South as Mississippi and Alabama, if not more. Gore was also from Tennessee.Look up the locations of Baker, Dixie, and Franklin counties. You are talking about very rural north Florida counties. This is as Deep South as it gets in every sense of the word.This message has been edited by randman, 01-23-2006 10:38 AM

Bcstandard.comThe mural commissioned and placed on public county property is a mosaic of the county's history, and includes the Klan in white robes. The quote above probably accurately reflects many sentiments in the county, but on the other hand, there was a controversy as many felt it was inappropiate to have the Klan up there and it opened old wounds of Jim Crow, and so many wanted it taken off the mural. I was surprised myself in this day and age that depictions of the Klan would be promoted as part of an area's history.I think the fact this was even a debate speaks for itself. If you guys cannot figure out that these "democrats" were never going to vote for a liberal Yankee like Kerry, well....no point in arguing further with you.

Crash, show the equivalent counties with high dixiecrat registration that voted differently. These are poorer counties. So they have not paid for new machines.The article claims other counties with high democrat registration came out different, but what other counties is he talking about? South Florida, Central Florida, or where? a college town area maybe?Then, the article dismisses the claims of dixiecrats by comparing them to votes in Pennsylvania!! What the heck! The logic is absurd.This message has been edited by randman, 01-23-2006 10:57 AM

So, it was the machines. Isn't that kind of the point, here?

No, it's not the machines. The coorelation with optical scanner machines with voting patterns is just that older, rural counties that vote Republican but with high numbers of dixiecrats still use the older machines. The idea here of vote fraud doesn't match the facts. The analysis in the article is way off.Anyone that knows these northern Florida counties expected them to vote Republican.

Thanks for that, Crash. I'll just shut up now, since I obviously don't qualify to have any input in this discussion. Mea culpa. Let me know the next time I'm allowed to say anything without the risk of you being obnoxious, patronising and denigrating. Until then, I'll just keep quiet so as not to upset you. I had no idea that I didn't qualify to post on this board, but now that you've explained that my views are nonsense because I come from a small landmass, I totally understand and won't sully the board again.

Frog, I find your assertions about the Florida optical voting machines to be believable, but then I'm biased against George W. Bush. Some online references to back them up would be nice (appologies if you previously supplied them, and I just didn't notice).Moose

That just doesn't explain the correlation with the voting machines. There was a similar correlation in ohio.The problems with the machines are:(1) they can be hacked. This was know before the election btw, and(2) there is no way to verify the vote count afterwards.Given a tendency towards massive corruption, as demonstrated by Abramoff and Delay and the texas redistricting and ...A little vote tampering is just more of same ol same ol once that path is taken. Mix it with a little favoritism for a GOP company where the CEo promised to deliver the goods for good measure ....You can put the blinders on and claim it is only democrates whining about some new conspiracy, or you can look at the facts and judge for yourself whether your country is being hijacked by thugs that care as little about you as they do about me.

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Evidence for this assertion?

Oh, I'm sorry, were we having a discussion? I would assume that it would require a little more input from folks than "You idiot Yanks; we do elections perfectly over here on our island paradise; why the fuck are you all so goddamned retarded?"The United States has serious electoral issues; issues that stem from the fact that over 100 million votes need to be tabulated in the space of about 4 hours (since most people vote after work at about 5) across an area of land that spans 6 time zones.The details of how you do it over there are fascinating, to be sure; but surely it isn't lost on you that we live in two different kinds of democracy. There's both a different system of organization and a difference of scale. We're not a parlimentary system. We have a unitary executive who is both very powerful and (almost) directly elected by the people. (I'm discounting the electoral college because electors elect exactly who they were elected to elect, exceptions being almost unknown. That makes the system essentially transparent; it's just a kind of mathematical wieghting system that makes the votes of the residents of some states more powerful than others. It doesn't really mean that the American people don't elect their president.)That makes the stakes a little different. The reason that we have the problems that we do isn't because we haven't adopted the British way; it's because we are employing the British way - putting votes in boxes and counting them - in a system where it's insufficient to the task.

I'm sorry if I made it seem like I was the prime proponent of this position. I've simply been referring to the Creative Commons article that DC85 posted a while back in message 20. Randman's been responding to the content of that article, which draws a link between discrepant voting results as compared to party affiliation and the use of optical voting machines in various Florida counties.

That's out of line, crashfrog.

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