evidence for conservative Christian influence on US government

When the death penalty gets abolished in Texas, I will listen to what Jr. has to say about being pro-life. What does this have to do with the pope? Dubya is pro-life because he's a conservative Christian.
Brad

Thanks Tal, but of course it is you who is the real hero along with all who serve.

There is a difference between killing the innocent in the name of convenience and punishing those convicted of heinous crimes.

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If you live in Europe, the US has either saved your ass or kicked your ass.
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

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If you live in Europe, the US has either saved your ass or kicked your ass.
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

I could, but you were right to correct me. I'm not sure why I used the limited term "legislative". How about "moves by the government"? Really? Who?I mean I can fight our current enemies. Remember modern warfare is asymmetric and total and so we are all involved, including reg'lar citizens. Even a porn producer managed to take down some AQ assets. There haven't been any real battlefield engagements of any enemies so far.Afghanistan was necessary and the closest we have gotten to your description, but was not really a regular battlefield war. Actually my freedoms came from everyone, including soldiers. The best fights (outside of WW2 and the Revolutionary War) have been by reg'lar citizens against people attempting to use the gov't to crush human rights. MOST of the rights I value came from people who fought enemies in OUR gov't, and not some foreigners.There are enemies both foreign and domestic and unfortunately the armed forces are usually impotent to fight the domestic ones because they happen to be in charge of the military.I have a healthy respect for the military and those who choose to work in that profession. I have little respect for those who use that service as some sort of "better than thou" badge, especially when they are helping some of the domestic enemies (intentional enemies or unintentional enemies due to ineptness) of this nation."Never a boast or brag", remember?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Tal answered you but I'll answer you too. You equate evil with good, equate murdering the innocent with legally executing the guilty. This kind of moral insanity is dominating too many these days.{EDIT: Even the Pope can't see the difference since he's for abolishing the death penalty.This message has been edited by Faith, 06-01-2005 01:57 PM

Uhhhh, without Europe there never would have been a US to begin with. They saved our ass repeatedly. One might also note that more than US soldiers helped win WW1 and WW2, including Europeans.Not sure if you're up on your geography but Britain is in Europe. Without that as a staging area and launching point, it is unlikely we would have won against Germany. Not to mention if Russia had not been there we might also have gotten our asses handed to us.Never a boast or brag soldier. You can be proud without being insulting... can't you?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Huh? Those were THEIR wars, not ours. We entered to help THEM.

Actually, we entered because the German and Japanese imperial ambitions conflicted with our own imperial ambitions.

Look, I get the idea that one can be against abortion and for the death penalty and not necessarily be a hypocrite. However I think the confusion comes in with the "pro-life" term. If one is pro-life that tends to suggest you'd be against killing for any reason, including as punishment... after all we are supposed to leave punishment to God.Perhaps a better term for his position is "pro-birth". That would be less confusing.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I was addressing the rather large claim of the US either having kicked or saved all European's asses. The statement is patently false and your comments don't change that fact.Remember the US struggle for independence was "our war" and they entered to help us (some of them anyway). In WW2, we also received assistance with our end of the war. Japan certainly did NOT attack Europe, and Germany was attacking our ships.We entered WW2 to help our own interests (not saying it was selfish) as well as deal with our own war with Japan. Yes we did help Europeans, but not all of them were crushed and without them, we would not have likely won... not to mention Russia.It is very insulting and ignorant to claim we went over to save European ass or kick it, as if we owed nothing to them nor received critical help from them in our fight.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Please consult your history books, as this is incorrect. Germany declared war on the US on December 11th, 1941.(http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1941/411211d.html)Here is Hitler's speech to the Reichstag about his declaration of war:http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1941/411211b.htmlHere is Mussolini declaring war on the US:http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1941/411211c.htmlHere is FDR acknowledging that Germany and Italy just declared war on us:http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1941/411211a.htmlWe did not enter World War Two to "help" anyone. We entered the war because we had been attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor and because Hitler and Mussolini declared war. The US recognized that it was at a state of war with all three nations, not that we should enter the war to defend freedom and democracy. The war was forced upon us by the Axis: it was clearly OUR war.Chris

Thank you Holmes, that was my point. That's like saying "I'm not pro-choice." Well how can you be against making choices?!? That's what I thought. But the rules don't seem to be very clear. God can control bringing life into this world, but he's not quite capable of removing it on his own? Thank God I'm an athiest, things make more sense that way.
Brad

Actually he can't do that either right? That's one of the religious mysteries I can't figure out.God knows all and sees all and does all and planned everything from before we were born, and yet a regular human can foil all of his schemes with a 10 cent coat hanger?I really can't believe if there is a God, that anyone might accidentally stop his next son's birth... or anyone he cared about. Yet that seems to be the argument.AbE: Now that I think about it some more, if he really is a just God wouldn't it be true that all the babies that get aborted would be NOT innocent? That is they were destined to be evil and commit heinous crimes?This message has been edited by holmes, 06-01-2005 02:27 PM

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

As I just explained to Faith (msg #57) we were in the war against the Axis because Germany, Japan and Italy attacked us or declared war on us first.But I would dispute your use of "imperial ambitions" to describe the motivations of the US. The Tydings-McDuffie act of 1934 set a ten year timeline for complete Philippine Indepdence (well, technically, they were to be achieve it on July 4th, 1945). The PI were on pace to meet the deadline right up until they were invaded by the Japanese. After the war they were granted their indepdence July 4, 1946. This is certainly not classical Imperialism, as the Japanese practiced (and they practiced a particularly brutual form of it).ChrisThis message has been edited by cmanteuf, 06-01-2005 02:32 PM