Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Christianity and wealth
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 83 (240265)
09-03-2005 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by cavediver
09-03-2005 1:42 PM


Re: Yeah
Could be worse. Could be Mogan David Black Current.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by cavediver, posted 09-03-2005 1:42 PM cavediver has not replied

tsig
Member (Idle past 2938 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 32 of 83 (240274)
09-03-2005 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
09-03-2005 10:58 AM


birth not death
Many people mistake what the sacrifice was. The sacrifice is not Jesus dying, it was Jesus living.
I read this as saying that it was the birth and not the death that saved mankind.
This seems to disagree with a majority of christian thinking.
I love the smell of burning heretics in the morning.LOL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 09-03-2005 10:58 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 09-03-2005 2:48 PM tsig has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 83 (240277)
09-03-2005 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by tsig
09-03-2005 2:33 PM


Re: birth not death
IMHO it is neither. GOD forgives mankind. All mankind. Jesus life here on earth is but a reaffirmation of that message. It really isn't all that an unusual interpretation within the Christian community nor is it some new interpretation.
Jesus life, his birth, his ministry and his death are all part of that message. Look at the Nicene Creed:
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
In particular, read the bolded section.

and was made man.

The fact that Jesus became man, became human, is an important part of Christianity. Man cannot kill GOD. Had Jesus not been fully human, he could not have been killed.
The sacrifice is in GOD becoming man, with all of the limitations that each of us experience. His death was simply a continuation of that sacrifice.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by tsig, posted 09-03-2005 2:33 PM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by tsig, posted 09-04-2005 7:24 AM jar has replied

watta
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 83 (240345)
09-04-2005 5:42 AM


3 comments...2 unreferenced unfortunately, the third personal.
1.I read somewhere that early in it's history the Church was the single richest organization in the Roman Empire....money from widows.
2.Again unsubstantiated, the catholic Church is the largest asset [buildings,land] holder in the world.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
3.My wife and I were travelling in South America some years ago.We liked the Spanish style church buildings but had to stop going in to have a look at them. The ostentatious display of power and wealth inside in contrast to the poverty outside was too much for us. The final straw was watching a poor woman giving a fat priest a donation inside a gilt laden ornate church.
So whatever the doubts about the biblical background of all this I have no doubt that organized religion is motivated at least partly by the drive for wealth and power.

tsig
Member (Idle past 2938 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 35 of 83 (240349)
09-04-2005 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
09-03-2005 2:48 PM


Being human
IMHO it is neither. GOD forgives mankind. All mankind.
The fact that Jesus became man, became human, is an important part of Christianity. Man cannot kill GOD. Had Jesus not been fully human, he could not have been killed.
The sacrifice is in GOD becoming man, with all of the limitations that each of us experience. His death was simply a continuation of that sacrifice.
Being fully human, did Christ sin and need his own forgiveness?
"We have all sinned and come short of the glory of god"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 09-03-2005 2:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 09-04-2005 12:35 PM tsig has replied
 Message 43 by iano, posted 09-05-2005 12:20 PM tsig has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 36 of 83 (240380)
09-04-2005 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by tsig
09-04-2005 7:24 AM


Re: Being human
Another great question. It would be pure speculation to say one way or another. A widely held belef within Christianity is that he was the only sinless human. But there are indications that he harbored doubts. He was tempted but resisted the temptation in the one main recorded instance yet gave in to despair momentarily in another.
I guess the best answer I can give is "I don't know". But he certainly tried to do right and so I imagine he would be forgiven.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by tsig, posted 09-04-2005 7:24 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by tsig, posted 09-04-2005 1:15 PM jar has replied

tsig
Member (Idle past 2938 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 37 of 83 (240390)
09-04-2005 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by jar
09-04-2005 12:35 PM


Re: Being honest
I guess the best answer I can give is "I don't know". But he certainly tried to do right and so I imagine he would be forgiven.
Thanks for the answer.
If "I don't know" is at the center of your belief you may be an agnostic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 09-04-2005 12:35 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 09-04-2005 1:22 PM tsig has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 83 (240392)
09-04-2005 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by tsig
09-04-2005 1:15 PM


Re: Being honest
I have my beliefs, but I also acknowledge they are unprovable. Reliegion is belief not fact.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by tsig, posted 09-04-2005 1:15 PM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by iano, posted 09-05-2005 12:07 PM jar has not replied
 Message 57 by tsig, posted 09-05-2005 5:26 PM jar has not replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 39 of 83 (240549)
09-05-2005 10:47 AM


I don't believe God cares about how much wealth we have. His concern is the condition of our hearts.
The problem with wealth is that it is just something else that can become the focus of our life. It just makes it that much harder to get the focus off of the "self", when our focus should be on loving God and loving our neighbour.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 40 of 83 (240551)
09-05-2005 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
09-02-2005 11:04 PM


quote:
On the other hand, as others have pointed out, wealth is a good thing to have for helping out those in need. And wealth is one of the ways God blesses the righteous.
Do you think that Paris Hilton is righteous?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 09-02-2005 11:04 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 09-05-2005 11:41 AM nator has not replied
 Message 44 by iano, posted 09-05-2005 12:23 PM nator has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 41 of 83 (240556)
09-05-2005 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by nator
09-05-2005 10:59 AM


Schraf writes:
Do you think that Paris Hilton is righteous?
If she trusts Jesus as much as she is able, her faith is accounted to her as righteousness. If she trusts the family money and has no belief system, she will have to grow up quite a bit to earn the righteous tag. But then, who am I to judge the rich girl? I am still working on myself!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by nator, posted 09-05-2005 10:59 AM nator has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1970 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 42 of 83 (240560)
09-05-2005 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
09-04-2005 1:22 PM


Re: Being honest
Jar writes:
Religion is belief not fact.
I'd agree. And Christianity is knowing - not belief. And that's a fact

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 09-04-2005 1:22 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Brian, posted 09-05-2005 1:17 PM iano has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1970 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 43 of 83 (240563)
09-05-2005 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by tsig
09-04-2005 7:24 AM


Re: Being human
DHA writes:
Being fully human, did Christ sin and need his own forgiveness?
The reason for the virgin birth was to break the infection of sin which came down the line from from Adam. Jesus is referred to as the second Adam. He was God who set aside the powers that God has to become man. As a man he wasn't born with infection (a sinful nature). But he was like Adam in that he did have choice. He didn't have to obey God but he chose to do so. That's the difference between him and Adam. Adam messed up, Jesus put right.
He was tempted, he was afraid, he cried, he was filled with joy, he was indignant, he was angry (but righteously - not sinfully), he expressed sorrow, he was compassionate, he prayed, he loved, he wasn't a fan of political correctness.
Jesus the man - the second Adam. The only man who never sinned.

Romans 10:9-10: " if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved....."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by tsig, posted 09-04-2005 7:24 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by nwr, posted 09-05-2005 1:12 PM iano has not replied
 Message 58 by tsig, posted 09-05-2005 5:47 PM iano has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1970 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 44 of 83 (240566)
09-05-2005 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by nator
09-05-2005 10:59 AM


Schraf writes:
Do you think that Paris Hilton is righteous?
Dunno, but she sure is prettier than Paris, Texas

Romans 10:9-10: " if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved....."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by nator, posted 09-05-2005 10:59 AM nator has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 45 of 83 (240589)
09-05-2005 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by iano
09-05-2005 12:20 PM


Re: Being human
iano writes:
The reason for the virgin birth was to break the infection of sin which came down the line from from Adam.
So sin is in the Y-chromosome. Now that's a start. Maybe somebody can find which actual genes are involved

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by iano, posted 09-05-2005 12:20 PM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by lfen, posted 09-05-2005 2:44 PM nwr has not replied
 Message 48 by Brian, posted 09-05-2005 2:51 PM nwr has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024