War in Iraq

Lately (this summer), I've been consuming my time watching debates on CSPAN, playing guitar, basketball, track, and thinking.The war in Iraq has been a puzzle to me. Being influenced by a seemingly republican brother and my friend and his Dad (Democrats). So far I have witnessed debates between Republicans and Democrats (on CSPAN.)For instance:The war in Iraq so far seems to be argued a bad action and a good action. So far the R's I have seen support the war, and the D's do not. A common argument that many debates seem to always "boil down" to are the unrelenting question "Why did we go to war", a question for some that seems to be changing. WMDs, Liberation, Ties to Al Quaeda, and Oil (obviously not on the president's agenda) are some answers that seem to be floating around.So far the WMDs have been knocked out of the brains of Democrats but Republicans retain hope, as well as past history of the attempts of Iraq to get Weapons. They are at a kind of a stale mate here I have observed, democrats state openly that weapons have and never will be found and republicans state that traces have been found and WMDs will be found. As for the WMDs the reason for war is an opinion, backed with fact on both sides.The Liberation of the Iraqi's is viewed by democrats as an excuse, saying that initially this was not a main reason for war. Republicans beg to differ, as both sides analyze Bush's initial agenda.Now Iraq's Ties to Al Quaeda were obviously found, but democrats argue that Al Quada had more of a connection with other Counries such as Afganistan, Iran, Lebanon, etc... So why target Iraq, they say, In fact Bin Laden actually wanted to do away with Hussein himself, saying that he was against Islamic traditions and beliefs. Republicans focus on the ties with Iraq and highlight in past fundings, and helpings of Al Quaeda done by Iraq.Oil is a reason for war developed by the democrats, citing how within the week of Bush's inauguration a meeting was held about Iraq.War waged under false pretenses?
Or was this war genuine?

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So it seems that you are swaying between, Yes it was good for the Iraqis, but in the process the savage elements of war: death, hatred, Pows, etc, were way too much of a cost.I know that liberation was great, but war is savage.This message has been edited by prophex, 06-22-2004 10:33 AM

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It was strategically stupid, because of clear ulterior motives
It was politically dishonest, as the discredited pretexts show
It was elitist and imperialist, as it arrogantly sought to impose a way of life
It was clearly illegal as the UN has no rights over the internal policy of member states

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Clear ulterior motives being what? Oil?Politically dishonest, do you think Bush lied to us as a nation? About his motives of war?A better way of life, where people can live freely without such a man as Saddam?

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I was in favor of the war, simply because liberating the Iraqis was the right thing to do. But we haven't done that. I don't understand how any Republican can look back on this with a clear conscience. You've got to be crazy or outright heartless to feel good about this war, or to vote for Bush.

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Why limit the guilt to republicans? Democrats as well as republicans wanted this war...

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How about a better way of life where people can live freely without such a man as George Bush? Am I now entitled to bomb you and your family becuase I think this?

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I see your point, and I agree. But I don't think this comparison is fair, considering Bush is not killing his countrymen, although you might say he is causing all of the causualties we see in Iraq, including our own...

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Yes, Why target Iraq?Aside from the missing Oil reason on Bush's agenda that keeps popping up, Liberation seems to be the main reason for war right now, although opposers of Bush seem to see no liberation, rather death of innocent civilians, not sure where I stand on the Liberation.

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"What liberation is there in Occupied Iraq?"Removal of Saddam Hussien?
Attempts to forge a Democracy in Iraq?

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Wow... Scary is right.

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whatwhatwhaaaaaat?

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From a recent (last night) debate a republican cited ties of Al Quaeda with Iraq, I'm sorry, I will research this more extensively, (should have came prepared.)

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I am interested in why everyone hates Bush so much. Care to clue me in? (anyone, not just Crashfrog) Reasons besides the choice to go to war?This message has been edited by prophex, 06-23-2004 12:25 AM

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Calm down my friend, sometimes the word hate doesn't really mean HATE. Maybe I should have asked in another way.Anyways,Here is a quote to think about:"The South Korean plan to send troops to Iraq is not to engage in hostilities against Iraqis or other Arab people but to help reconstruction and restoration in Iraq," Roh said.So, is this help towards liberation a lost cause?Not at all.Whole Article:http://story.news.yahoo.com/...e_mi_ea/iraq&cid=540&ncid=716

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You mean, maybe you shouldn't have construed opposition to a public figure's policies as irrational emnity towards a private individual?

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Eggzactly, sorry.

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Sorry, didn't mean to flip out. But it's a pretty common conservative tactic to do exactly what you did - style the opposition's disagreement with policy as irrational hatred.

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Oh really? Wasn't my intention.

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Anyway I think I made my position pretty clear.

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Yep.

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I do, but I point out as well, Bush has signed over a hundred death warrants, so he is indeed guilty of killing his countrymen. Now you may argue that this was through due process... but the US has suspended due process in the "war on terror".

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Being against the death penalty that is shocking, nope, wouldn't argue that.

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But the serious point is that your opinion on whether the comparison is fair or not is actually wholly irrelevant. The US doctrine says its MY decision alone, if I have the power to act. If *I* think Bush should go for your own good, then I am free to bomb, maim and rape in the name of that good cause - and if you object or complain, that will only confirm how vile and evil you are.

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Yeah, my opinion may be irrelevant, from your perspective of "fairness" is irrelevant, this was simply what I was talking about.

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Thats an amazing idea.

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VOTE NADER

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