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Author Topic:   To fund or not to fund - Are some science projects worth pursuing?
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 49 of 74 (594416)
12-03-2010 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Bolder-dash
12-03-2010 12:35 AM


Re: per your advice
As cavediver has pointed out, there are very very few people on the planet who can even come close to understanding what is going on in the search for extra universes and strings created only by the evidence of imagination. I believe the further we go towards this type of far out theoretical pondering, we are by definition more likely to be wrong then right. How much should we spend on such short odds? We have to spend billions based on the fantasies of 5 people?
The whole point of the proposed supercollider and the now operational LHC is to see if these theories are right or wrong. Like you said, imagination and math can only get us so far. At some point we have to test these ideas, and this is what the LHC is designed to do (or at least come as close as we pragmatically can). You also need to keep in mind that finding out that these theories are completely wrong is as important a find as discovering that they make accurate predictions. Finding the Higg's Boson would be amazing, but not seeing it when it should be seen could point to whole new avenues of research.
As to Hubble, I suspect that many are biased in favor of the telescope because they like the pictures. I would suggest that the WMAP and COBE satellites were just as important, and maybe more important, and yet they get much less press and public support.
IMHO, science projects like these are just as important as government endowments for the arts. They are things that we must do as humans because they are what define us. We are explorers. We are artists. Above all, we are curious. What if the answers to our questions are within our techonological grasp? Wouldn't it be a crime against our own humanity not to at least try?

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 Message 47 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-03-2010 12:35 AM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-03-2010 12:27 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 52 of 74 (594450)
12-03-2010 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Bolder-dash
12-03-2010 12:27 PM


Re: per your advice
Well, when 60-100 million children starve to death every decade, when another 800 million people annually are malnourished, when 20,000 square miles of ocean are clogged with plastic contamination, when we are 30 years away from no more oil, when 10% of all college age blacks are in prison in America, when 50 million Americans are without health insurance, when we have no long term strategy for storing spent nuclear material, when 250 million people contract malaria every year...and a whole host of other issues, I say the money spent to satisfy people's curiosity is the bigger crime.
The money spent on these science projects is dwarfed by the total amount of money that is out there. IIRC, the LHC cost around 7 or 8 billion to construct over several years. The US military budget is 700 to 800 billion per year, and it doesn't solve any of the problems you listed. I don't think the LHC (or other similar big projects) is the area you should be picking on.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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 Message 50 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-03-2010 12:27 PM Bolder-dash has not replied

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 Message 64 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-05-2010 1:36 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 70 of 74 (595083)
12-06-2010 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Minnemooseus
12-05-2010 1:36 AM


Re: Regardless of things elsewhere, science shouldn't be a sacred cow
There are certainly other areas of government expenditures that should be questioned, the military (IMO) the greatest of the bunch*. I'm not anti-science, but I don't see that "we waste lots of money elsewhere" as reason to make science a sacred cow. Indeed, much military research and development can be filed under "science".
Any scientific research program should go through a review where the scientists must justify the project. I think we both agree on that. What I was arguing against is that science should be the prime target for cuts until world hunger is cured.
I also mentioned the Arts. We have government funded endowments that fund the arts. What do we get out of it, in practical terms? Nothing. Is it still important? Absolutely. I view big science projects like the LHC and manned space flight in the same way. These are first and foremost human endeavors that push the limit of what we are capable of with science taking 2nd place in the whole scheme of things.
The LHC? I can get behind that, but I really don't think we need more than one of them.
I agree. One is enough. After 20 years or so of operation we should have a better idea of what we should expect from an accelerator (probably space based) operating at 4-10 times the power of the LHC.

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 Message 64 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-05-2010 1:36 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
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