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Author Topic:   Is it experts or "experts"?
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2 of 39 (260092)
11-15-2005 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bobbins
11-15-2005 9:02 PM


The question I am asking is this, what justification do you have for questioning/ignoring the opinion of people with a far greater knowledge of a subject than you do? And why?
Because incompetence is incapable of seeing that it is incompetent?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by bobbins, posted 11-15-2005 9:02 PM bobbins has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by bobbins, posted 11-15-2005 11:19 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 18 of 39 (260408)
11-16-2005 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by bobbins
11-15-2005 11:19 PM


Re: Incompetence is not really an issue
What I was trying to question was the wilfulness of ignoring of expert opinion.
People who are incapable of discerning the nuances of an expert opinion are likely to think that their uninformed opinion is just as valid.
Think of it like this ... "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job"
Is the opinion of someone who:
(1) knows what a good job is in this particular application
(2) recognizes when a good job has been done in this particular application
(3) has a complete knowledge of all that goes into doing a good job in this particular application
or (4) none of the above, in spite of having the best reason for having the best expert opinions available and incorporated into the planning for this particular application?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by bobbins, posted 11-15-2005 11:19 PM bobbins has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 25 of 39 (260759)
11-17-2005 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Omnivorous
11-17-2005 9:06 AM


yes incompetence.
The most popular use of experts is medical. People go to doctors because they know more about sickness and injury than the common joe\jane.
When oil companies want to find oil, they go to experts in the field of geology, and when people are in trouble with the law (or have a dispute with other people) they turn to lawyers.
Reasonable people accept that there are experts in these various fields that actually do know more than they do about the specifics in question.
Smart people also know that getting a second opinion can be as valuable as getting the first one, and when the first two do not agree go for a third.
BUT
This is different from the people that reject the opinions of various fields of experts out of hand as some kind of smoke and mirrors. This kind of wholesale rejection can come from no other source than being totally incompetent to understand the field.
Whether it is due to ignorance, stupidity, insanity, maliciousness or delusion, is not that important to the fact that if one doesn't have the tools to evaluate the validity of the experts opinion, know where one's knowledge is incomplete nor able to see that the expert does have the {information\knowledge\education} in the matter, then one just cannot see the validity of the experts opinion.
We are not talking about blindly accepting the opinion of the {authority\expert}, but the wholesale rejection of a whole field of {educated\trained\experienced\tested} experts.
The {argument from authority} is a logical fallacy because the implication is that the authority must be right, and this is false. What is true is that the authority is likely to be right, but the {afa} has no way to determine if that is true in the specific case where the argument is employed.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Omnivorous, posted 11-17-2005 9:06 AM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Omnivorous, posted 11-18-2005 11:58 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 35 of 39 (261127)
11-18-2005 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Omnivorous
11-18-2005 11:58 AM


Re: yes incompetence.
My subjective sense is that experts received much greater deference in the mid 20th century, and I believe that the marketing of expert opinion as an adversarial commodity, and the failure of the media in general to vet supposed experts, are responsible for much lost esteem.
I have also seen much greater deference given to {experts in specific fields} in europe, though my experience there is limited.
Perhaps it is the american ego that is also part of the problem eh?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Omnivorous, posted 11-18-2005 11:58 AM Omnivorous has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 36 of 39 (261139)
11-18-2005 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Rrhain
11-18-2005 3:47 AM


Re: Incompetence is not really an issue
welcome back rrhain.
Another, more powerful effect, however, probably comes from cognitive dissonance. If you have a fundamental outlook of how the world is supposed to behave, encountering information that contradicts it is "traumatic." Thus, the information is denied in favor of the core belief.
Yes, throw in denial too ... And one can feed the other as well: incompetence lets the faulty world view exist, the faulty world view says the fields of incompetence are not worthy of study. It becomes self-reinforcing.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Rrhain, posted 11-18-2005 3:47 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Rrhain, posted 11-19-2005 1:03 AM RAZD has not replied

  
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