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Author Topic:   glaciers and the flood
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 2 of 96 (59317)
10-04-2003 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
10-04-2003 12:22 AM


At the very least, it seems that all that seawater should have left a layer or two with noticeable salinity in a least a couple of the dozen or three glaciers that have been cored around the world.....

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 13 of 96 (60005)
10-07-2003 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by some_guy
10-07-2003 7:54 PM


some guy, you might take a look at R.B. Alley's book The Two-Mile Time Machine. He's one of the leading ice-core researchers, and appears to know what he's talking about: he helped find volcanic ash debris from volcanic eruptions known to have occurred in AD 1783 and AD 79 in ice cores in central Greenland. They are the correct number of layers down, within less than 1% error. The 1783 eruption left ash, chemically matched with ash recovered at the volcano itself, 72 meters from surface.
The snowfall each year is much greater along the coast, where the Lost Squadron was buried, than along the central "spine" of Greenland where the cores were drilled. There is quite a bit of data that calibrates not only the annual layers in Greenland ice sheets, but also a couple of dozen other ice sheets from around the world. And besides the calibration, over 10,000 layers have actually been counted, one by one, in Greenland.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 16 of 96 (60032)
10-08-2003 12:01 AM


After some exhaustive Googling, partly in Danish, I have found that the average annual snowfall along the SE coast of Greenland ranges from about 150 cm (as water - much more as depth of snow) to 247 cm. Compare 25 cm at Summit, where the GRIP and GISP2 cores were drilled. That's 6 to 10 times as much.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 22 of 96 (60191)
10-08-2003 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Bill Birkeland
10-08-2003 8:34 PM


Re: Snow Accumulation Data for Greenland and Antarctica
The best I can guess from what I've found, the Lost Squadron was near Dannebrog Island, which is at 39.6 deg west / 65.3 north. That's in the heaviest contour of snowfall on the maps you provided. The GISP2 site says they get 0.25 meter of precip per year.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 28 of 96 (61521)
10-18-2003 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by zeal4him
10-18-2003 11:55 AM


We can debate the precipitation in Greenland vs. other areas, but the fact remains that there was 75m of ice deposited in 46 years in Greenland. That's 5.35 ft/year.
And my post 16 above documents as much as 2.5 meters of precipitation per year there on the eastern coast, and only .25 meter average near Summit, where the cores were taken.
Isn't assuming there was only one freezing and melting per year in a glaciation area reaching a bit? A storm followed by a melt would produce one layer. Ice has been seen melting in Antartica at 14F.
Apparently it's not reaching much at all - the volcanic ash layer from the Vesuvius eruption that destroyed Pompeii in 79 AD was at the proper number of layers down to better than 0.5%.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 37 of 96 (74938)
12-23-2003 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Abshalom
12-23-2003 6:00 PM


Re: Antartic Ice Cores
The C-14 dating can be further correlated with annual sediment layers from glacial lakes and with pollen record dating of climatic changes in Europe and America, and with radiometric dates and sedimentation dates in deep sea cores.
And, for that matter, C-14 dates on leaves and insect parts actually contained in the individually counted layers in cores from Lake Suigetsu in Japan correlate with these same records. And they were counted back to 38,000 years ago, extrapolated to 45,000. Very tough for Mr Gish to explain, I'll bet....
Kitigawa and van der Plicht, Science, vol 279, pp 1187-1190, (1998). It's free online if you register at Science | AAAS

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 46 of 96 (101648)
04-21-2004 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by RAZD
04-21-2004 4:43 PM


Re: Antartic Ice Cores
Everything in Science from 1996 (?) to a year before today's date is free at their website with registration: Science | AAAS
You can kill a great deal of time there if you're suitably motivated.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 76 of 96 (188289)
02-24-2005 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by NosyNed
02-24-2005 9:07 PM


Re: Joe Meerts examples of Paleosiols.
My favorite but OT part of that link:
Parallels with the Bible are obvious but the Gilgamesh story has clear fictional characteristics such as an ark the shape of a cube, and rainfall lasting only six days and nights.
ROFL. "Only six days' rain to flood the Earth? That's absurd! It'd take at least forty!"
Oy, weh!

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