Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Origins of the Judeo-Christian god and religion
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4140 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 88 of 282 (308965)
05-04-2006 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Faith
05-04-2006 12:07 AM


Re: Back on topic
I'd like to point this out, hebrews = sons of eber, they could have believed they were the sons of eber long before yehwah, like a lot of cultual heroes and origanators.
also they were never called jews until after the kingdoms split and they really never called them selves it, outsiders called them jews, or judes of judea
THERE IS NO OTHER SOURCE OF INFORMATION ABOUT ABRAHAM AND THE HISTORY OF HIS DESCENDANTS.
first you really need to calm down, if you get this angry, maybe you should find a different hobby
"The Jewish faith" is the worship of the one God who called Abraham and his sons after him, that developed among his descendants over the following centuries. There is no way to know anything at all about Abraham and his descendants and their religion EXCEPT from the Bible.
there is history from other cultures that talk about judeaism and thier practices, no thier is no evidence outside the bible for abraham or any of the people, but say a few kings, which really gives it less authority as anything but a religious text
by the way it took quite a long time for the jews to worship only one god, heck he is found to be depicted with a wife on some items found

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 05-04-2006 12:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 05-04-2006 1:02 AM ReverendDG has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4140 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 192 of 282 (309509)
05-05-2006 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
05-04-2006 8:02 PM


Re: henotheism?
There is no way the Israelites can be properly called henotheists, since that would imply it was the accepted mode of worship by the community, but it is condemned by their own prophets and that is recorded in their scriptures.
well yes, they did worship yehwah along with other gods, sometime beside him sometimes below him, a lot of scripture is written to condem the practices of returning to other gods.
most of the scripture was written by yehwahists not the polythieists so i wouldn't think you'd see any good things about other gods
heck they did worship some of the gods in the temple along side yehwah, they found evidence of this

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 05-04-2006 8:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4140 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 193 of 282 (309512)
05-05-2006 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Faith
05-05-2006 12:35 PM


Re: Naaman's odd use of the soil of Israel
Depends on what Naaman's mental set is. Perhaps you are right and he is still a heathen who hasn't let go of his old religion yet. But as far as the God of Israel goes, in fact Rimmon is not a God. Not in the sense that it is nonexistent but in the sense that it has no powers. Yahweh cancels out all other gods. Message of OT beginning to end.
ok you have no clue about how people thought back then, to everyone even the israelits rimmon was a god, but yehwah was a better god, a stronger one. it has powers just as much as yehwah, but yehwah beat rimmon. i guess that can be your message but don't expect anyone to agree with you on it
Yes, I grasp the way you have the language all tangled up. Nobody says the other "gods" are "nonexistent" -- what would be the point of that? The other nations all have their gods. They are a major part of their life. Deuteronomy 32 somewhere says that to sacrifice to an idol is to sacrifice to a demon, which means they are even real in the sense of having a living being behind them. The point is that they are FALSE gods. YAHWEH is the only true God.
they arn't considered by the people back then false, maybe the authors wanted them to not lose belief in yehwah though, so they made them out to be demons, i would say that the priests wanted people to only worship thier god.
I read that later along the line, yehwah starts taking on attbutes that all the others had, including female ones, so the hebrews wouldn't stray
I'm sure you can point to some circumstantial facts to prove that Yahweh only takes on this character later in the OT, but I see this same character affirmed from the very beginning on.
i read that they really only start considering yehwah the only god after the exile, ie: everything else is false or a demon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Faith, posted 05-05-2006 12:35 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Faith, posted 05-05-2006 9:35 PM ReverendDG has replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4140 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 206 of 282 (309537)
05-05-2006 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Faith
05-05-2006 9:35 PM


Re: Israel's religion OPPOSES the cultures of the time
The Bible is a record of a COUNTERCULTURAL MOVEMENT, you could say. What people normally did in those days is SPECIFICALLY BEING COUNTERED, CONTRADICTED AND CORRECTED by the revelation of the Biblical God. Therefore to apply to it the standards of the cultures surrounding the Israelites is to completely miss the point.
how is it a counter culture? monothieism is not a new concept at all, even during that time, how is it missing the point of anything?
you are just giving the israelites a special place because they relate to your religion
you make them out to be in a vaccum when you have no evidience, but your belief that their beliefs were not affected by other peoples

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Faith, posted 05-05-2006 9:35 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 05-05-2006 11:33 PM ReverendDG has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024