Public Education

Well, I guess that does about do it for marriage. Now I COULD bring in the fact that it was originally ordained by God but I've figured all along that one wouldn't fly here. Ancient institution doesn't fly, social order and stability doesn't fly, heterosexual covenant doesn't fly. So long marriage. Nobody loves you any more. God will have the last word then.Cheers.hey whatever happened to the topic of this thread anyway?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

marriage has existed in every culture on earth forever. It wasn't the creation of a particular religion.

Projection much?The principle here is personal freedom. You want to deny people their rights because of your anti-gay agenda. Two homosexuals marrying does nothing to you. It does nothing to any heterosexual marriage. Homosexual marriages do not infringe on anyone's rights.You pretend as if rights are a zero sum game, that if one person is given more rights it takes away from other peoples' rights. That's not how it works. That's what they said about slavery, mysogeny, women's rights, segregation, etc. Just because something has been around for a while does not automatically make it right. If you think that homosexual marriage is wrong then don't marry the same sex. It's that easy. No one is forcing you into a homosexual marriage. No one wants to deny heterosexuals the right to get married.What you need to face up to is reality. Right now there are homosexual couples that are in long lasting, healthy relationships. These couples are even having children and raising them. What they want is the same protection for their families that heterosexual couples are afforded. Granting such protection in no way takes away protection from heterosexual couples. However, granting such protections does make for better families. Are you against families Faith? Do you think it is your right to dictate to others what their families should look like? So blacks can ride in the bus as long as they sit in the back, right?

Where is gay marriage changing the meaning marriage. Traditional marriages are still performed, there is no change to this. All that has been done is adding a category of marriage. Why can't you "rightists" see that or are you simply clueless?

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

Nothing, you have just shown what happens when people deny the rights of others by using narrow minded ideology or the changing of history to make the ideal fit their bigotted beliefs.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

Marriage is between a couple to decide how that marriage goes and no one else. We cannot control how other people decide they want to run their marriage, and I suggest that no one, especially the government, dictate how it should be run.How are homosexuals marrying going to ruin your marriage? I do not see how your marriage (which should be the only pertinent marriage in your life) will be effected if homosexuals are allowed to marry. I would agree that the government forcing a religion to marry homosexuals against their beliefs is wrong, and I believe that should be a provision protecting religious values from government intrusion. Aside from that, what free people do in a free society is not your choice to decide, it is theirs.On what basis do you feel it is morally justified in stopping people from marrying? Even if you say God, isn't that God's job to condone or condemn? Where do you factor in to that?

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"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

Words are based around concepts, not concepts based around words. If I said "nigger" was just a word, you might take exception of my minimizing it.I agree with Faith that marriage is a long standing tradition of being between men and women exclusively, but that does not mean the word cannot synthesize or evolve over time to adapt to today's climate. Lots of words meanings have changed over time without sending the universe in to some cataclysmic event. I assume this is what you are saying, and if so, I agree.But if we are just haggling over a word, why are so many people in need of ownership over its meaning? What difference does it make what we call it as long as the word has a concept to support it?

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"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

As I have said over and over and over and over and overit is not about anybody's marriage, it's about themeaning of marriageas an institutionas a principlein the abstractthe status it has in people's minds.It is not about individuals.That is why in a sane society individuals have no right to do with it as they please.However this is no longer a sane society and all sane institutions are shot to hell already so go for itBring the whole culture crashing down, it's just about there anyway.And like Huntard nobody will notice except those who know what it means.Until all hell really does break loose, and it will.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Look, I'm telling you, nothing has changed since we allowed gays to marry in our country. Straight people are still getting married, happily, people go about their everyday business, nobody really talks about it, except the more fundamental Christians, and everybody is fine with it, except, again, the more fundamental Christians.What is so bad here? Nothing has changed, or do you know better than me, who can observe with his own eyes the society I live in. Would you mind telling me what has changed so terribly about living in my country since we allowed gays to marry?

Huntard not to be a dick or anything, but you may have noticed the Marxoism thread drifted off too. Maybe we should attempt to get it back to the topic? I am not sure if Faith truly wants to address the OP, but it might be good if we attempted to get this back on track.Faith is not going to give us an explanation of how same-sex marriage destroys marriage and culture so I think it may be best if we just let this die.If you feel you need to pursue, by all means I support you. It is just that I am realizing that heading my head against the wall is futile and maybe, just maybe I can keep you from doing brain damage as I did to myself.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

I'm fine with that. I realize that Faith is never going to explain herself. Don't worry about it mate, I'm already past saving, just ask Faith. In all seriousness though, I don't really care about that brick wall, as long as the debate is in a fairly normal tone, I can take stupidity to amazing levels (or so I like to think). For instance, I might have called Faith a bigot, but that was solely on the fact that she apparently doesn't want all people to have equal rights. I don't think she is an unpleasant person or anything like that, I'm sure that if we met and wouldn't talk about...well...anything really, it would be fine. But if everybody wants to get this back on topic, by all means do so, I will comply, like a good little soldier.

Faith, what if it's not individuals who are changing the meaning of marriage, but society itself? Because that's what Huntard has been telling you: in the Netherlands we, as a sane democratic society, have decided to extend the right of marriage to homosexual couples.It's an important point. Individual homosexuals have not decided this, but we, as a whole nation, have. Would that change things?P.S.: Sorry about keeping this thread off-topic just a little longer...Edited by Parasomnium, : No reason given.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

The meaning of my younger son's marriage would have been "felony" up until 1966 here in Texas and in a bunch of other states. He's married to an African-American girl, and until Loving vs. Virginia got to the Supreme Court, that was worth two years in the pen.The "meaning of marriage" in Western society has been changing quite rapidly for over a century now, Faith. Polygamy is pretty much illegal now, where it was OK until Mormons started taking several wives. Men don't own their wives these days, except maybe in that fundy sect 100 miles south of here. My son and daughter-in-law haven't been arrested for "miscegenation."Are these signs of a non-sane society, too, or do only the bits you object to qualify?

It was once ordained by your God that one could have many wives

How is the "institution" of marriage threatened by homosexuals marrying? What is the institution of marriage, anyhow? The only marriage that should matter to you is your own. We don't get married to satisfy an "institution," we marry for our spouse. In my mind, individuals are all that matter when it comes to marriage. And what "sane" society might that be? Iran? Syria? Somewhere else where Sharia law sanely executes homosexuals? Exactly my point. If these people are "going to hell" then that is on them. Where do you factor in to the equation? That's the burning question.Why don't we let God be God for awhile, Faith. We have enough "sane" people working in God's absence by blowing up themselves and others on the sacrificial alter. Do you have so little faith in God that you need to move his hand? Do you have so little faith in God that you fear he is too inept to exert his will over his dominion, that he requires your assistance? Every society says this. Every generation says this and yet, mysteriously, we still survive and even thrive. The country was "going to hell in a handbasket" because Elvis was "shaking his hips." How racy! Look at all the people fornicating in the streets because Elvis shook his hips! It's a regular Sodom and Gomorrah around here! Are you that cynical because two men or two women want to [gasp] marry each other? Because I hear a lot about how society is going to be so thoroughly damaged by it. In what way is society going to decay in to oblivion because two dudes want to marry?Is this your idea of what is going to happen if gay marriage exists? Edited by Hyroglyphx, : Edit to add hilarious demotivational poster.

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"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston