Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,911 Year: 4,168/9,624 Month: 1,039/974 Week: 366/286 Day: 9/13 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Alternative Cosmology?
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4670 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 4 of 25 (559793)
05-11-2010 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CosmicAtheist
05-10-2010 11:17 PM


I think this is a very interesting topic to look after in the up coming years. I could see a paradigm shift coming in cosmology if enough counter-evidence to the current BBT can pile up to become unavoidable.
Dark matter and energy are areas where I could see the paradigm shifting early. I'm sure cavediver remembers how I once called them fudge factors, and I still think they are.
It's like back when Newton's theory of universal gravity came to explain a lot of incredible things, but failed to explain the precession of the perihelion of the orbit of Mercury. To explain the difference, an ''unknown'' planet named Vulcan was hypothesied to exist.Some looked for that planet for over 50 years. We now know that the answer lied elsewhere, namely new physics with Einstein's relativity.
I think it is a distinct possibility that the same is happening with dark matter. We have been searching for it for what, at least 20-30 years now ? With no concensus on what it is, and only very disputed evidence of it's detection. Maybe then the answer to the discrepencies dark matter is hypothesied to explain will in fact be answered from another direction, maybe new physics once again ?
I'm sure the old-schoolers in physics such as Cavediver will disagree with me. But then again, that's why we need young and naive New-comers on the scene like me
AbE I read a quote on that phenomenon once, something along the liens of ''science progresses with the replacement of the old minds''. (It may be something worded totally differently, but this was the essence of the message)
Edited by slevesque, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CosmicAtheist, posted 05-10-2010 11:17 PM CosmicAtheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by CosmicAtheist, posted 05-11-2010 5:45 PM slevesque has replied
 Message 14 by cavediver, posted 05-11-2010 7:08 PM slevesque has replied
 Message 24 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-25-2011 6:11 AM slevesque has not replied

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4670 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 8 of 25 (559809)
05-11-2010 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by CosmicAtheist
05-11-2010 5:45 PM


New physics would probably change a lot of things, but I do think that they would still be compatible with a Big Bang type of cosmology. This is because it would have to be compatible with universal gravity and General relativity. It won't come in and contradict those two.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by CosmicAtheist, posted 05-11-2010 5:45 PM CosmicAtheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by CosmicAtheist, posted 05-11-2010 6:25 PM slevesque has replied

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4670 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 10 of 25 (559820)
05-11-2010 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by CosmicAtheist
05-11-2010 6:25 PM


Do you have the whole article ???
Because just that intro didn't inspire me any confidence in the knowledge of the author. radio waves propagate through the air ?? Seriously ?
AbE And as CD said, you should always have a healthy very high level of skepticism when someone claims Relativity could be wrong. It's one of the most verified theory in all of science in my opinion.
Edited by slevesque, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by CosmicAtheist, posted 05-11-2010 6:25 PM CosmicAtheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by CosmicAtheist, posted 05-11-2010 7:00 PM slevesque has not replied

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4670 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 17 of 25 (559833)
05-11-2010 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by cavediver
05-11-2010 7:08 PM


That's 'cos you still don't understand them Anyone who groups the two together so naively will never be taken seriously. Dark energy has always been half expected by those of us in theoretical phsyics and was no real surprise - though a fantastic discovery. How does that equate to a fudge?
I grouped them in the sense I could see a paradigm shift happening in both areas, not that they were both interrelated and/or the same.
And in what sense are you saying 'half-expected' ? In the sense 'it was predicted' or in the sense 'the theory could accomodate it' ? (or maybe some other sense)
Dark matter on the other hand was a surprise, and requires a much more complex answer. However, the vast majority of observations suggest that cold dark matter (WIMPs) forms the primary component, as opposed to just about every other conceivable way of changing physics to accomodate observation.
Of course, you can hypothezise new undetectable particles to accomodate observation, just as you can add epicyles on a geocentric system to make it fit the observations. And it'll work.
But that's the whole idea of a paradigm shift. It attacks the problem from a whole new angle (maybe the sun is at the center ?). Likewise, New physics shouldn't be discarded, especially if they come in the form of complementing General Relativity in the same way it itself complemented Newton's Universal gravity.
Critics seem to have this bizarre notion that we guess an answer that seems cool, and then consider the problem solved. Although a tempting way of working, surprisingly real science does not progress this way...
But of course, this is not what I did. I still consider this problem to be wide-open in the scientific community.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by cavediver, posted 05-11-2010 7:08 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Iblis, posted 05-11-2010 7:39 PM slevesque has not replied
 Message 19 by cavediver, posted 05-11-2010 7:39 PM slevesque has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024