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EvC Forum ⇒ Science Forums ⇒ Biological Evolution ⇒

Should the term species be used?

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Author Topic:   Should the term species be used?
New Cat's Eye
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Message 10 of 24 (598139)
12-28-2010 2:57 PM 		Reply to: Message 9 by wolfwing
12-28-2010 2:26 PM

Welcome to EvC, wolfwing.
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Take Dawkins example *I think it was him* of a paper with the left side black, and the right side white and shading it so that it gradually becomes more white. You could take the colour at every inch and show that colour and say this is X colour, but when you compare them on the paper and say, when does X colour become Y colour you can't because the border line between them is bluired.
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Like this:
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Click the Peek button at the bottom right to see the text I entered where you can find the image tags I used to link to pictures. The pictures do have to already be hosted somewhere in the internets to link to them. Too, there a link to the left of the reply you type into that says "dBCodes On (help)". THe help link takes you to a list of codes for making your posts sweet <-- waiting.
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This is how it is in evolution/modern day terms for species, your taking a thin slice of the line and giving it a name and saying species, but if you had a entire line from ancestor of chimps and humans, and showed every female up to humans, at any given point there be no difference to the left and right it's when you take snapshot of every 100 or 1000 you see enough change to call this a species.
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I think most people here realize this. In fact, when using the word species in that way, I think people are actually referring to just that: an arbitrary line in an otherwise continuum of organisms.
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BUT...
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As RAZD shows in Message 3, there is another usage of the term "species" which is when taking about speciation events. For that, the meaning is less ambiguous.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by wolfwing, posted 12-28-2010 2:26 PM wolfwing has seen this message but not replied
  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member

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Message 12 of 24 (598141)
12-28-2010 3:00 PM 		Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
12-27-2010 6:05 PM

You will also see that the overall trend from Pelycodus ralstoni at the bottom to Notharctus venticolus at the top right has a gradual "trendency" of increasing size with time, but that the divergence of Notharctus nunienus from that trendency occurs at a greater rate of change. This likely occurs for two reasons: (1) the original ecological niche of Pelycodus ralstoni still exists, providing an open opportunity for a smaller species, and (2) the separation in habitat\ecology is necessary to reduce competition between the daughter species (without it one species will likely drive the other to extinction or being reabsorbed - as you can see occurred between Pelycodus trigonodus and Pelycodus jarrovii when an earlier shift to the left shows up, then dissappears).
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To me, it looks like the smaller version was "trying" to split off a few times over and over again and then finally found a niche where it worked.
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Any ideas on what could be driving that? Doesn't look very random...
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 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 12-27-2010 6:05 PM RAZD has replied
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New Cat's Eye
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Message 18 of 24 (598194)
12-29-2010 10:07 AM 		Reply to: Message 15 by wolfwing
12-28-2010 11:27 PM

From Message 14:
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heh sorry on the not using replies, I did it partly because when there is 3-4 people replying rather then make 3-4 seperate posts and spaming the topic I tend to try to consolidate then into a single post that makes it less spammy.
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At the bottom of each post is a section with this:
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quote:
This message is a reply to:
Message 9 by wolfwing, posted 12-28-2010 2:26 PM wolfwing has not yet responded
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When your logged in, if you click on the part where it says that you have not yet responded (I bolded it), then it will change to: "wolfwing acknowledges this post" and then people will at least know that you've read it.
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From Message 15:
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but that the term species feels inadequate a term for long time. For all I know species is the best word to use, I'm just wondering if it couldn't be done in a better way that fits more the DATA in long time. Were always changing words, or using new words or old words in new ways to fit our understanding.
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How about clade:
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Clade - Wikipedia
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 Message 15 by wolfwing, posted 12-28-2010 11:27 PM wolfwing has replied
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