Born Again

That's the problem - if you ask anyone for advice, then all the wrong people will give you the advice. But if you read the Gospel with a believing heart and look to God - pray to Christ, then, you can "do all things through Christ who strengthens you" (paraphrase).Good works, kindness, love, all come from taking part in the divine nature, and we are asked to cast away the old man.When you sow to the spirit, when you walk in the spirit, and when you seek to obey God, He empowers you.Good works flow naturally when we follow Christ. But in the present phat, there are all kinds of empty secular and universal philosophies that just don't match with what the New Testament says.Perhaps you need to read more about grace, the fruit of the spirit, and relying on God for all things.But perhaps He is the last one you seek for advice? Rather than asking, vaguely, anyone for advice?If I ask a lost person for advice - he will give me an answer according to the flesh. If I ask a spiritual person, born again, and having walked with God in experience and maturity for many years, He will teach me in the way everlasting.I say a harsh thing to you phat - I ask a challenging question; when are you going to forget what others think - and ask the one Who can give you more than you could ever ask?Oh but I forget, you're only an ape. Oh, but I forget, God might be a she. Or perhaps a brilliant design comes from some racemic amino-sludge.Stop listening to nonsense and go back to the sound doctrine of the scriptures, and what Christ said. Listen to programs that will help you to understand those things.It's only when you will take God at His word that He can help you. But if you ask for everybody elses words, that are based on heresy or atheism, then you will get answers that do not satisfy you.Humble yourself before God, and ask Him. Look to Him - not the Gospel of Mary, Jane and Joe.Phat - I say this in a way of encouragement, but men can't solve your problems. Let's face it, listening to the philosophies of the naturalists makes you look even more at sea than ever before. That is because spiritually, you are still on milk. You can't ask a fleshly mind for a spiritual answer.If you want to eat stones, then go and eat stones. If you want fish - you go to the man with the fish, not the man with the stones, or you will break your teeth and swallow them, and then you will never chew any good food again.But do you think it pleases God that you seek vague advice from people offering you stones to eat?No offense, but you will go in circles forever unless you get on your knees and pray out to God.A man preparing for a race does not expect to win that race by sitting in front of his TV. He expects that he must train to win that race. He does not go and ask a slob what he should do.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

Wow, what an enthralling refutation, but you could have atleast made it into a grammatical tautology that actually shown some originality, such as, Jack bull the Poppycock.(Why the picture of Sharon Stone from the quick and the dead? It must be that film as it's 1995 and that fits. Is it because you like the film, or the character or the woman?) I would hazard a Sherlock that it's probably a mixture of the woman and the idea of a gunfighting-woman because you didn't generally show the film, but focussed on her.

That's false.There are no "goals". What you have described is religion or more specifically, legalism.Under legalism, you might get guilt, but not under grace.My walk with God, so many times I wanted or expected God would judge me or get angry, and infact He responded with mercy.It's a shame, but so many people only offer a strawman of the real deal, and then say that the real deal isn't real.In actual fact, they should logically just tell the truth - that for them it did not work out.That Phat has guilt means he is going back to legalism, when the teachings of the New Testament are clear about this.I think Phat has a mix - he is letting religion and philosophies get in there, and you are acting as opportunists, giving your personal testimonies in an attempt to deconvert him, by saying, "don't bother with God, he's fake, he's not there, just forget it".These falsehoods are only testimony of personal experience, they do not describe every experience. My experience is that there is a growing process, whereby guilt is a very common factor, while you are on milk.

You feel the need to attack me in some way? (blah, blah, blah).I don't feel the need to attack atheists because I am secure in the truth. There could be a million of them all ragging on me.

You have mis-understood what I said.What, "ignorance"? What is the cop-out?I think you're way off even coming close to what I mean.Phat says he doesn't "feel" urges to be generous. Well, being generous won't get him into heaven. Christ, our righteousness, is the one who saves us, and he IS generosity. For God IS LOVE. If you have God, you have love. Christ didn't "feel" good on the cross.Phat has received faith, and with a noble heart accepted it, and will bare fruit with patience, (paraphrase). Therefore, perhaps you can elaborate on what I have said, in particular, that you deem snake oil?Are you saying to pray to God, to seek answers from God, is not right? Ask and you shall receive. For the Gospels tell us we can ask anything in accordance with His will. Is this snake oil?If you judge me to sell "snake oil", then you say my works are false, despite not even knowing me. If your fruit was good, you would not have to judge me, or even mention me. You have shown your fruit, when you made the same statement as the fringe lunatics, by flat-out telling us who is going to hell, as if you are god. Let go of what? Who said, "let go?" What are "we" charged to do, and by whom? Allah, Buddha?Should I do as Allah says or Christ? Should I seek Jihad?What are "we" charged to do? Who is "we"?Your blanket-statement was frankly weird to me, why you felt the need to say I sell snake oil is particularly odd to me. (I think it's an EPITHET because you can't actually refute what I said, that way you can just use loaded terms, as the easy way out of actually providing a sound argument.)Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

I think the problem is that you over-value what you think rather than what God thinks, according to scripture. We don't care what you think God thinks, only what He tells us He thinks, in the word.God cares about righteousness in scripture, and hates sin. The problem that seperates us from God, is sin. Nobody can e good enough.Christ, our righteousness, according to the NT, has imputed to us righteousness, so that God does not condemn us. When we are born again, we receive the new nature. This gives us the potential to not walk in our old ways.It's about understanding it EXACTLY the way it was described by the expert the apostle Paul.

Your acts speak. You have no need to say false things about me when I am telling the truth to the best of my knowledge, and in good faith.You say, "too funny" and repeat the loaded word, "snake-oil" and now bring in another loaded term, called my "product". YOu also try to make a fallacy of association, by remarking about a "cult-of-ignorance" so that people can lump me into that category. Not very honest of you, you mate Allah-the pink unicorn who died on the whisky won't be too pleased with you.( All of the readers are supposed to just take your word for it.)If you believe according to your ignorance of mike the wiz that mike the wiz is selling something, that is snake oil, or is a pretty but false product, then fine, have that false belief.Meanwhile, I don't have any belief about you, all I know is that you have judged me to be false, and have judged with certainty as to who is going to hell.. Here is my EQUAL refutation, logically.You post your product Jar, I don't judge you I judge the product you try to market. Too funny, Jar! Nice product there, Jar - telling us there's no difference between Allah and Christ. Too funny, that snake oil.Remind me how many sales you have got for telling people that Allah and Christ aren't any different?Sorry mate, all of this only makes sense in jar-world, where the pink unicorn died on the cross and where Jar tells us who is going to heaven.How many have actually read the Gospel of Jar and believed?(And you think I have a product, now that is TOO FUNNY!!)

Here is my official respone; Word salad a nice spiel, and easy cop out. The allah-Christ unicorn you are marketing is worthless..........Interesting little word game, but what are we proving, remind me?You have not proved anything, all you have done is use the following colourful words; word salad
spiel
product
marketing
snake oilThey are only assertions.

Again - that "born-again" was not stated to be a moment, or an easy cop out. For me personally, it took years, I did not know I was born again because of false teachings such as Allah being the same as Christ.But you didn't ask me for that information, you just jumped to a conclusion.

You only asserted things in this post. I think it is an emotive post, an unnecessary one aswell You already have tried, by telling him the wrong things.He asked for advice, I gave it. The advice you gave is according to disbelief, he is Christian.If I gave an atheist Christian advice I would be called an opportunist.Why you felt the need to jump to all of those other conclusions, I don't know, I would need to be in your head to know. (Brownie points for example, when the scripture says, "therefore be unprofitable servants")Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

Fortunately I don't value your opinion in the least.Why should I? It's not as though you have dealt honestly with me. All you have done is to try and force your own picture of me onto everyone else.If I am vile to you in some way, or you believe my faith is fake, what can I do? It's not like telling you the truth is going to change your mind.You can have those opinions if you want, but if you are going to state publicly that I am this way, then you are going to have to provide some solid and sound logic, perhaps in the form of a syllogism.But all I know is that I gave phat some advice as a fellow-believer.Sure, I admitt, as atheists most here will not value that advice, or even understand it, but to say false things about me without even knowing me just isn't necessary.

You know, you are the one who came on here all guns blazing.(If it's because I said don't call me mikey, I only said that because sometimes I don't think you realize how condescending you can be.We are all human, we all have thoughtful minds. I only require the respect that I give you.)

I don't fully disagree with this post, but I would say that being born again is the beginning of being transformed into the image of Christ. At that moment, you receive the Holy Spirit. Only God can change somebody from within, as God is the missing element.Through sanctification, as mentioned in the New Testament, there is a process, ofcourse. This is why I think you have misunderstood me. I am not selling anything that the Gospels do not say if you have read them. You can find all of the subjects I have mentioned;1. Fruit of the spirit.
2. Sowing to the spirit.
3. Hearing the word with a noble heart and bearing fruit with patience.
4. Being transformed, renewing of our minds, putting away the old man.
5. Sanctification and grace.(We study these things every week during bible study. We are selling exactly what Paul wrote. I know that "the earnest prayer of a righteous man avails much", therefore my advice to Phat is to only do as the New Testament says - all of it, not just parts, and to study it. That is good advice, not snake oil)

No - everyone is equal to God, "God is no respecter of persons". Whether you know it or not, we are all equal to God. Of equal worth.When I say I respect you, I don't mean it as the world means it - saying it to appeal to pride. I mean I have not cursed at you, I have not judged you or said personal things about your character, and have tried to evaluate what you have said with objective reasoning and tried to remain polite even when I see red.Yes - people at these forums make me upset, and angry, but I take God seriously, and what He says seriously - therefore I am not able to sin back at them.I do not want to "earn" your respect, because I am already a valid human being that deserves respect and care and love the same as any other human being, because God made me.

If he thinks that then it's his problem, not mine. He also thinks Allah is the same as Jesus.Unless I can coherently understand what somebody is "selling" me, I am not interested in that heresy. What I say can be found in the bible.As for my attitude, I am sure you think you do phat a service, but infact, I know from experience, as a fellow-Christian, what he is going through, as for many years I battled the legalism of havin to earn God's favour. Yet the scripture says, "all those who seek me find life, and obtain favour from the Lord."I give spiritual advice - you swear at me and get angry because you think I am trying to earn religious points.I am not doing anything other than helping phat to see this from a biblical perspective, and yet as usual, because I am an uncompromising Christian, people jump to all manner of conclusions about me, with ad hominem comments, or atleast allusions, such as "browny points".The truth is, if you take the whole bible as true, as the inspired word of God, then there is a way to approach these problems according to the body-of-Christ (the church). You see, these problems are common for us, and we get through them through listening to very basic teachings about doctrines.People get into stupid muddles because they turn their faith into a big human-muddle.Guilt
Legalism
Fear of hell
fear of sinning.There are many common problems we go through but when you mature you see that it is the mind playing tricks. For God did not come to condemn us, but to save us and to give us life in abundance.