Born Again

What really lies behind all of Ringo's interpretations ?" I'm OK just as I am. No need to be born again. No need for any Holy Spirit. No need even for a Son of God or a redemptive death of the Son of Man for my sins. No need for a resurrection of Christ. No need for a Lord and Savior. "All this born again talk in John 3 to Ringo is just about being reminded to be a good person by the prophets - a renewal, a re-dedication.No magic special moment can replace day in and day out applying one's good natural character. At the end you can point to your own doings and say "Look what I did." This is his vision of really being responsible.Meanwhile Jesus says "Marvel not that I said to you, you must be born anew." Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

No, I am saying that I disagree with YOUR practice of taking things out of context and quote mining and with the cheap Christianity that YOU try to market.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Yes. Many times. And he needed to be renewed many more times. Exactly. But he asked, so Jesus told him. And yet, Jesus told him that he should have heard it that way: "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?" I'm saying that there is no magic one-time answer to being a better person. I'm saying it takes a life-long effort. If I wanted an easy way out, I'd take yours.

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

That's the exact opposite of what I've been saying. I've been saying that you must be born again - and then tomorrow you must be born again and the next day you must be born again and for the rest of your life, every day you must be born again. Every day is the beginning of the rest of your life.Edited by ringo, : Spellaing.

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

Some heresies have a humble sound to them.

quote:

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Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

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quote:

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Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

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If humility is a bad thing to you....

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

Phony humility.Your many times a week life-long effort at self improvement will not bring you into the kingdom of God.You're dressing up your rejection of the salvation offered by Christ to make it look like spiritual humility.You're trying to make dung look like icecream. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Rejection of Christ's salvation disquised as humility is a very bad thing to me.

The topic isn't about bringing anybody to the kingdom of God; it's about what it means to be born again. Despite your assertions to the contrary, Jesus' meaning seems to be pretty clear. If you have any Biblical substantiation for your claims, I suggest you bring them instead of descending any further into personal attacks.

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

We should not trust any teacher of the Bible who is ambiguous and non-committal about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, to be a reliable interpreter of regeneration, being born again.The regeneration experience is "through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." No one who teaches Christ's resurrection is not important or is a myth can be trusted to know anything about being born again. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Intrance into the kingdom of God is intrinsically related to the topic of being born again. "Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3) I will attack your false teaching. It is not personal.
I will just expose your twistings and false teachings.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

The meaning of regeneration is to be born anew or born again. That is to receive another LIFE. In addition to the natural life that a man is born with, in regeneration he receives a divine and eternal life. He receives an uncreated and indestructible life.From our standpoint it is like coming into the intimate knowledge of a Person.Regeneration is not a self reformation of our natural human life. Regeneration is not self improvement of our natural life.Regeneration does not involve a new beginning of one's human life. It is receiving the eternal life of God. And previously the sinner was "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) Regeneration is not a metaphorical birth. It is an actual birth in the human spirit through God the Spirit. Regeneration causes one to become a child of God with an "organic" joining of their inner being to the resurrected Jesus Christ.Some theologians suppose that man's need for regeneration is because we are fallen and sinful. But this would only be the secondary need of being born again. It is true that since Adam all people are fallen in sin and need to be enlivened by God. But the primary need of being born again is that we are natural.By natural I mean that we only have the created human life. For the kingdom of God we need to have in addition to our created human life, the life of God. Adam, before his fall, was innocent and created "very good". Adam was placed before the tree of life to signify that this good created man needed the life of God.Man needs regeneration because he lacks the life of God. And God's eternal purpose was to mingle and join Himself with man. Being born again initiates this joining and mingling of God and man. From the human standpoint the experience is like coming into an intimate relationship with an unusual Person - Jesus Christ who became a life giving Spirit - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" ( Cor. 15:45) Man primarily needs regeneration because he lacks the life of God. Only secondarily does man need to be born again because he is sinful and fallen. Fallen man needs to be redeemed and brought back to God for sure. But Adam was not fallen for a period of time. And Adam was not created with the life of God indwelling him. Adam had the choice, in his innocence and goodness, to partake of the tree of life.That tree of life would have caused the life of God to be imparted into the original man.Today, since the fall of Adam, need justification as a basis of regeneration. And justification by faith preceeds regeneration. According to Romans 8:10, it is because of righteousness that the human spirit becomes the divine life through regeneration. God cannot dispense Himself into unclean vessels.Adam sinned, and the cherubim of glory with the flaming sword stood to guard against fallen man from partaking of the tree of life.So justification by faith in Christ becomes the basis through which the comatose and deadened human spirit may become born again. Then God can dispense His life into man. "The spirit is life because of righteousness" indicates that being born again follows and is based upon being justified through Christ's redemption.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Clearly not, since it's a significant theme in the Old Testament. One more time, Jesus clearly refered the meaning of "born again" back to the Old Testament. "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?" Nicodemus learned what he knew from the Old Testament. You can't use the New Testament, which had not even been written yet, or Jesus' resurrection, which hadn't happened yet, to negate what Jesus said. But it doesn't tell us anything about what "born again" means. Jesus was pretty clear that it meant something that a master of Israel should understand.Again, I suggest that you address that issue.

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

Clearly, we should take the Apostle Peter's word that the Christians were regenerated unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.Clearly, we should reject your outright denial of what the Apostle Peter wrote.I already gave my opinion concerning verse 10. I am willing to consider verse 10 more. But you cannot use verse 10 to construct your heresy:1.) One can be born again without the Spirit of God.
2.) The resurrection of Christ is not needed for regeneration.
3.) One has to be repeatedly born again 365 days a year for the rest of his life.
4.) Being born again can be reduced to being reminded what the prophets said.John 3:10 may be obscure. But there is way too much else in the Bible to sieze upon it to build your modernistic "regeneration" of essentially natural religious piety and self improvement.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Ringo,Which person in the Old Testament did Jesus teach was clearly "born again" ?Names ?
Reference from Christ stating that this Old Testament believer was "born again" ?