Studying the supernatural

Is Science trying to explain where life came from thru the TOE?The TOE explains how life happens not how it came to be. Science looks at the evidence, then forms the theory around it, right?Science doesn't need to explain the SN in order for the SN to exist.Just because something can be explained in a natural terms doesn't mean it can't have a SN connection.There are still a lot of things Scientists' don't know about lightning: Reference:Page Not FoundSo since some things are still relativley unknown can we assume it's due to not knowing how to detect or test the SN?Of course not. There are tons of things that will always be unexplained and Science is only a part of that. If Science never finds God does that mean God doesn't exist?If the natural world has laws and explanations maybe the Creator set it up that way.Goddidit is a terrible thing to say I know!! My god man, I would not utter that here trust me, but maybe God created lightning to act and work the way it does. Science explains how, God supplied the lightning. Deal? Im thinking no deal... Ignorant of what? So your saying as soon as something can be explained away God is out?Was He ever in? So basically everything that does not have an explanation you think we say Goddidit but once Science explains it we are left with the rest of the unexplained?So you get all the explained things that Science explains and we get the unexplained for now? Thanks a lot. Why do you have a problem with Science explaining things and God creating them?What if the evidence is just that, the lightning? Can you claim otherwise? And if so on what basis?God can be practical you know...just because He is SN doesn;t mean he has no common sense. COME on mannnnnnn. You think once something is explained the SN is refuted?Geeez Louise.Leonhard Euler-mathematician So, as soon as everyone understood what this great mathematician was trying to convey to people and science he was simply discarded and given no credit whatsoever? Everyone else gets/takes the credit now? That doesn't sound right to me. Wow man, thanks. Atleast you are being fair. What kind of evidence do you need? Do you need to see the mathematicion in order to leave the possibility open that the SN may have played a part?Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Ok, if you say so. Im sure there are some things still unexplained that were Scientifically investigated. Some things will never be explained and some of them are SN IMO.There is only two possibilities. Super-natural OR natural.The SN we can't see, or detect, so we can't test it. The only things we can test are natural that might be the cause of the SN. Hahah Well,umm, we are great apes after all right? So calling me primitive is a compliment? Thanks. I don't follow? That is wonderful that Science would very much like to take all the great wonders that are not explained and make them theirs and put their stamp of approval on all of them as natural and de-god them. Wonderful. Until then, it's all just "I dont know, atleast im honest about it" they say. Yes, such humility those Science folk.Such humble humble people. Just look around this particular thread for such examples. It's the same exact thing when we ask evolutionists about our origins. They say we only deal with current life. It's so very convienient.Science(most sciences) don't care anything about origins or how things started or got here only what we have now. Wonderful, but it doesn't give them the right to label all natural things as having a natural origin. They don't know. You don't know.Until they know, the jury is still out and all they did was explain how it works in the natural but not where it came from or how it originated. Of course. Why would Science, which studies natural processes, care about the SN? Science could care less just ask Richard Dawkins.I know that. What im saying is Science is god to some people(like you) and people like me (the primitive folk) believe it doesn't have all the answers. Im not at all against Science. It's great. I just don't hold it above everything else. It explains the natural and how some things operate. It doesn't mean once they explain that the SN is refuted. That's just silly. I don't know. There may be some ways but if it can be tested then it's not SN right? Isn't that what you would say?Isn't this whole thread a set up? Mod is trying to make us look even stupider than what people already think?See Nuggin's condescending, ignorant, wimpy, cop-out reply to me Message 46 about how I should "grow up". Anyone who believes there is more to life than what we see is a "dreamer". A "delusional whack job" and the best one "uneducated". We need to "grow up" and think for ourselves. Get "educated" as they say, "take a look at what Science is saying, be free, open you mind". etc etc etc etc...Well, as far as I know, science doesn't know a lot of things and that's fine, but it only deals with the natural, so why should I be concerned about science when dealing with the SN? I have my trusted Bible for that and you and the other educated people here can have the God delusion by Richard Dawkins.Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Here is what a (previous?) member said to another member here: Message 21See Silent H above. Yeah, seemingly stronger than your non-comment. Nice going in adding to the actual debate which Zen Deist has certainly done so far. You on the other hand? Wow Coyote. That sure is a fabulous comment. So that's it ehe? End of debate? Real mature dude. Real...mature. See Silent H. above...again.

First off, just because YOU say Nuggin has a valid point doesn't mean anything. He took what I said and twisted it around.GDR did a great job of explaining to the person what I actually meant so there was no need to respond to him the same exact thing. It has nothing to do with "because you aren't up to it" incidently. Also GDR felt that that person was coming across rather disingenuous too. I understand why tho you feel the need to try and belittle me. It's par the course for you here.If ever you construct a post that isn't at all condescending flavored with arrogance with a hint of humility it will be a first.As for understanding the posts I make, I perfectly understand what it is I said to Straggler. Thanks kindly tho.As for getting my facts straight, OBVIOUSLY I know what abiogenesis is! In fact if you read my post it says "most sciences" aren't interested in origins (I was using the TOE as one example). I thought that would imply abiogenesis was in play as ONE of the sciences that DOES seek answers for our origins.Anyway, Percy im sure is elated you took up for him here with the likes of me. I don't try and go around here like I know everything. I think it's obvious I do not.It's also obvious that you think you know it all. Who even knows what in the frikking world that even means. If you want to come over you can watch me pray anytime. Bring your pen and notepad.I have prayed for certain things that most certainly have been answered. I seriously doubt you would say it was due to prayer as you would call it a coincidence. So save displaying your pious attitude for someone else. Yep, likewise. Yep, likewise.

Im not good with trick questions so i'll do my best. If i falter I hope you'll show me some mercy. Hmmm. I do not no. Im not sure they are trying to disprove anything SN. Maybe some people say they are or maybe some actually are but the actual Scientists (save Dawkins) are probably not. Would a full understanding of abiogenesis if explained eliminate a theistic view for me. No, why would it?Straggler, im not saying science is evil, im saying it is content in explaining the natural means about how certain things work.To me tho, just because something is explained doesn't mean the SN is refuted. Why would it? YES. Why not? If we were not created from something SN then Science should have no problem explaining how we got here. Right?What's the hold up?

No. I didn't say THAT. I said the SN could be BEHIND the explanation. Causing it to work the WAY it does. What is the problem? Thor could have caused the static electricity to form lightning, yes. Very good Straggler. Well, im not sure about the gnomes, but God, yes. That's just me tho. You're on the right path.Or is that not what you meant. If so what did you mean?

LOL. Ok, so, if I pray for healing for my shoulder and the next day it's healed now what? You give credit to whomever I was praying to? I know what it means. Im simply saying it won't matter now will it? Hmmm. Funny. so you say it's good for evidence then?

Dude, stop playing around. Of course I believe it's God. Im happy to say it's God every time believe me. We can study the life of Christ while he was here on earth sure. Right now? You can study christianity sure.Right now, to actually study the SN entity that is Jesus? If I could do that for you I would.Get saved and you can do that yourself. I can't do it for you.Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Well, im not so sure it's contradictory. I suppose the thing is, if you are not a chritstian/religious person and know absolutly nothing about ANY type of diety or SN anything would we be able to recognize it thru what we see/test everyday.For me, I have a Bible, church, etc etc (a few creationist websites I like a lot) and to me, it explains things. If I wasn't a Christian I wouldn't be debating here I suppose. Maybe I would even be debating along side you.I do have to say I don't think God is trying to fool anyone. I really think we look at evidence?/things differently. Well, I understand that but it's really not possible IMO. Maybe we can be the first group of people to discover such a thing.Maybe im taking the wrong approach here. Maybe this isn't a debate about the impossibility but just, possibilities. Yeah, im sorry for mucking that up. I do actually know that. I got lost in the moment. Well, good question...lol. Can we just cite creationist websites all day with citations? Who knows. Im not sure what we're really discussing tho. Are we talking about for example- bluegenes theory or the great flood? Ok. Again, it was an overreation. Well yeah, but that kind of makes it sound like im a UFO enthusiast. Im not of that particular ilk. So you might say "yeah, there is actually more evidence for UFO's" (it's just a guess you would say that).The thing is, I didn't have an "experience" with a UFO. You might also say "how do you know they aren't martians fooling you into thinking it's God". GEEEZ Percy, you hang around Straggler too much. Science knows the natural explanation, not the SN one. It certainly isnt sciences' fault. Why are people just satisfied with just a natural explanation is my question.Of course it's not sciences problem to answer that. It's not their obligation. Maybe it seems like creationists hate Science but really we/I don't. Im not sure why it is the way it is. Do you? Well, how's explained? Because something has an explanation doesn't (to me) exclude anything SN. God is ok with us understanding how things work. It's just He doesn't seem to garner much credit for the things that He created to work the way they do. That's what im saying. And again you'll say "if I can see Gods fingerprints on it, i'll give Him credit."Maybe im off topic a little bit here. Am I off topic mentioning God? Are we mostly discussing SN beings like ghosts, goblins, etc etc? How to actually test to see if they exist? Is God-Jesus included here?I think Straggler was trying to get me to see earlier that there is no difference between Jesus and Thor when he asked about Jesus' DNA. Ok. well, I have so much information on the flood. I've even written and recieved responses from the Creationists that wrote the articles for more clarification. It would be great to discuss certain things here, but im not sure you or anyone here would think it's evidence. Well, I know because i've read the debates here.That is why, I don't understand this thread that Mod proposed. It's obvious what is allowed or discussed as possible or not possible testing/evidence etc. isnt it? Well, before I got saved I wasn't debating the Creation/Evolution view of things. Of course it has something to do with it. Then, we get involved and listen to people who are smarter than we are.The first time I debated anyone was on the Yahoo science articles which I used bob Dutko's top ten proofs to do. (I really like him, I know that isn't popular to probably say but I do).It didn't go to well and found myself trying to defend something I have no clue was about. I've learned a lot since that one day. I still believe a lot of it but not clear on everything.So, im not sure how to test for the everything SN. I guess it's what tests are really tests and what is SN and what isn't.If we say the flood was a God thing then if we test for the flood are we testing the SN? I think so maybe, possibly, not sure.Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Huh? Have you ever read the subjective evidence threads? There is tons of recources for the christian faith if interested. PM me and i'll get you started.Or just go to the Bible section here. The Bible is a SN book written my men inspired of God.If Straggler says we can study prayer then surley we can study the Bible to see it it's true.

I don't follow. I assume you means this Well there is context to scripture. So I suppose I could quote you all of the healing verses, as well as the you ask not therefore recieve not verses, so on and so forth and so on. Me or Straggler? He's the one who said prayer was good to go. Not me. Im good either way. In principle yes/no. God can appear to anyone He chooses. It's asking Him to do it on demand that gets tricky ya know? Faith is a big thing.The thing is it's not blind faith. Once that faith is excersized you see the light It's just not so bright to you because you don;t believe. It's brighter to others and even brighter to some and then they take the leap, get saved, and become a #1 on the dawkins scale. See, and Percy said you cared It's quite the question isn't it? To me very much so. How to convey that to you, I suppose is the purpose of the thread.

Hmmmm. Nothing happens on it's own. Or I should say nothing happens outside of Gods province. Straggler, there is actually a verse for that. So yeah, of course that is true and I fully believe it. Sometimes you know he is there and other times you knowStop by during a prayer session with me and two of my friends and you might even end up getting saved due to experiencing the presense of God.So yes, I would say there is. Bring along a few Scientists too. The only DNA we would have a Jesus would be something he touched or wore, etc... when here 2000 years ago.Right now tho, in this present time if He were to visit us in person, He has a glorified body. A heavenly body. No DNA as DNA is a human thing.

Yeah, so what's the problem? How should we go about doing this? This is quite shocking. I wasn't aware. So all these prayers of mine that were answered don't count because a scientific study wasn't there to document it? I take back everything I said about you Paul. You're ok. Damit! You have a weird way of doing so.Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Rahvin, do you think there is anything SN that can be the cause of things explained? Or once explained (if it can be explained) it puts the SN to rest? That's kind of what i've been arguing. Are you are wondering why there can't still be a SN cause to it even after it is explained?Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Without a means to test for the supernatural how can the supernatural be refuted or dismissed simply by explaining how some natural phenomena work?Once we figure out how lightning works it has nothing to do with whether Thor is the one throwing those boltz or not. It only explains what happens after Thor lets go of the bolt.Because there are scientific explanations to something only shows IMO that God (or Thor) designed it to work that way.The more things are explained the more we see a designer at work and we are just catching up. IMO.I think the more we find out about nature the more it favors a desinger more so than randomness or chance happenings.