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Author Topic:   A proper understanding of logical fallacies will improve the quality of debate
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 16 of 344 (640830)
11-13-2011 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by designtheorist
11-13-2011 9:15 AM


more references
Hi designtheorist, and welcome to the fray.
I recommend reading Taxonomy of Fallacies at Logical Fallacies as a way to get some context for the debate. There are a number of links there, providing more information about the types of fallacies.
A couple of other good references are:
Logical Fallacies
http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/toc.htm
http://theautonomist.com/...rticles_stand/perm/fallacies.php
Page not found - Nizkor
and
Formal fallacy - Wikipedia
Goal of the debate
The goal of this debate is for us to come to some agreement about the definitions of important fallacies and also about how they are to be confronted.
Another thing to keep in mind is the value of a logical conclusion: if there is no objective evidence to support the premises being true, then the conclusion is not supported either, even when the form is valid.
This becomes even more true when we move from deductive logic to inductive logic, which is essentially intentionally making a logical fallacy argument and guessing.
Other fallacies I hope others will consider and write about include:
add the Affirming the Consequent fallacy:
quote:
Definition:
    Any argument of the following form is invalid:
    If A then B
    B
    Therefore, A
Examples:
1. If I am in Calgary, then I am in Alberta. I am in Alberta, thus, I am in Calgary. (Of course, even though the premises are true, I might be in Edmonton, Alberta.)
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by designtheorist, posted 11-13-2011 9:15 AM designtheorist has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by mike the wiz, posted 11-16-2011 12:02 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 66 of 344 (641034)
11-15-2011 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Granny Magda
11-15-2011 4:15 PM


add the Argument from Ignorance, and invalid vs false
Hi Granny Magda
then that would be an argument from incredulity? That's fascinating. I'm sure glad that no-one around here has written anything like that recently.
yes that would be an argument from incredulity.
similar is argument from ignorance:
quote:
It must be {x} because I do not know of any other explanation
A different explanation could already exist in our knowledge base, but the author of the argument is unaware of it (or chooses to be ignorant of it).
Learning about logic is fun
Indeed, and one of the things that I have learned more about on this site.
A good reference I use is
http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/toc.htm
While it does not cover all logical fallacies (if that is conceivable), it does present them in the format of the op: definition, examples, ways to show the fallacy is not valid in the particular argument.
For instance:
quote:
Appeal to Authority
(argumentum ad verecundiam)
Definition:
While sometimes it may be appropriate to cite an authority to support a point, often it is not. In particular, an appeal to authority is inappropriate if:
  1. the person is not qualified to have an expert opinion on the subject,
  2. experts in the field disagree on this issue.
  3. the authority was making a joke, drunk, or otherwise not being serious
    A variation of the fallacious appeal to authority is hearsay. An argument from hearsay is an argument which depends on second or third hand sources.
Examples:
  1. Noted psychologist Dr. Frasier Crane recommends that you buy the EZ-Rest Hot Tub.
  2. Economist John Kenneth Galbraith argues that a tight money policy s the best cure for a recession. (Although Galbraith is an expert, not all economists agree on this point.)
  3. We are headed for nuclear war. Last week Ronald Reagan remarked that we begin bombing Russia in five minutes. (Of course, he said it as a joke during a microphone test.)
  4. My friend heard on the news the other day that Canada will declare war on Serbia. (This is a case of hearsay; in fact, the reporter said that Canada would not declare war.)
  5. The Ottawa Citizen reported that sales were up 5.9 percent this year. (This is hearsay; we are not n a position to check the Citizen's sources.)
Proof:
Show that either (i) the person cited is not an authority in the field, or that (ii) there is general disagreement among the experts in the field on this point.
References:
Cedarblom and Paulsen: 155, Copi and Cohen: 95, Davis: 69

:: Note that the "argument from hearsay" listed above is also known as the appeal to anonymous authority. Curiously, citing the fact that a paper has passed peer review means an appeal to anonymous authority (the reviewers).
:: Note further that appealing to "the majority of biological scientists" as validation for the theory of evolution is also treading into the Appeal to Popularity (argumentum ad populum).
The real test of validity of a conclusion lies in the evidence - objective empirical evidence - that substantiates the premises and in the proper construction of the logical deductions.
If the structure is valid, then the conclusion follows from the premises, and then (and only then) the truth of the conclusion is based on the truth of the premises: if the premises are true then the conclusion is true.
Normally, in science, we cannot be guaranteed that the premises are true, only that they approximate truth to the best of our (current) knowledge, and thus the conclusion/s are equally tentative as approximations of truth.
invalid vs false
There is frequently confusion between invalid and false in these debates (and I think this is a large part of the issue in the proceeding debate over the appeal to authority).
A logical argument that is flawed in the structure is invalid, and this is essentially the problem with logical fallacies.
Invalid means that the conclusion is not properly derived from the premises, but it does not mean that the conclusion is necessarily false.
Strip away the invalid structure and premises, and you are left with an unsubstantiated guess rather than a derived conclusion.
If it cannot be shown that this guess is actually false (ie -- objective empirical evidence shows the earth to be billions of years old, and this falsifies any unsubstantiated guess that the earth is less than 10,000 years old), then it is possible that the guess is correct, even though there is no evidence for it. This could range from the possibility of guessing heads or tails on a flipped coin to the possibility of guessing the winning ticket to win a lottery from millions of tickets available.
Enjoy.
Edited by Zen Deist, : enlgis

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Granny Magda, posted 11-15-2011 4:15 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 104 of 344 (641145)
11-16-2011 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by mike the wiz
11-16-2011 12:02 PM


Re: more references
Hi Mike,
Nice to see you around again.
I'm doing okay, thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by mike the wiz, posted 11-16-2011 12:02 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 153 of 344 (641561)
11-20-2011 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by designtheorist
11-19-2011 2:40 PM


An overview of logic and fallacies - poisoning the well
Hi designtheorist
Let me be clear on this. Unsupported claims of multiple logical fallacies is nothing but an ad hominem attack. It is an attack against a person's intelligent or morality or both. Likewise, calling someone a liar is an ad hominem attack.
Here's another one to consider:
Page not found - Nizkor
quote:
Description of Poisoning the Well
This sort of "reasoning" involves trying to discredit what a person might later claim by presenting unfavorable information (be it true or false) about the person. This "argument" has the following form:
  1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented.
  2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.
This sort of "reasoning" is obviously fallacious. The person making such an attack is hoping that the unfavorable information will bias listeners against the person in question and hence that they will reject any claims he might make. However, merely presenting unfavorable information about a person (even if it is true) hardly counts as evidence against the claims he/she might make. This is especially clear when Poisoning the Well is looked at as a form of ad Homimem in which the attack is made prior to the person even making the claim or claims. The following example clearly shows that this sort of "reasoning" is quite poor.
Before Class:
Bill: "Boy, that professor is a real jerk. I think he is some sort of eurocentric fascist."
Jill: "Yeah."
During Class:
Prof. Jones: "...and so we see that there was never any 'Golden Age of Matriarchy' in 1895 in America."
After Class:
Bill: "See what I mean?"
Jill: "Yeah. There must have been a Golden Age of Matriarchy, since that jerk said there wasn't."
Examples of Poisoning the Well
  1. "Don't listen to him, he's a scoundrel."
  2. "Before turning the floor over to my opponent, I ask you to remember that those who oppose my plans do not have the best wishes of the university at heart."
  3. You are told, prior to meeting him, that your friend's boyfriend is a decadent wastrel. When you meet him, everything you hear him say is tainted.
You can be subjected to a campaign of misinformation, posts about you with incorrect information or statements attributed to you. These are then used to discredit your arguments in later debates.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by designtheorist, posted 11-19-2011 2:40 PM designtheorist has not replied

  
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