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Author Topic:   The evolution of planets and solar systems...etc..
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 6 of 40 (643006)
12-03-2011 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
12-03-2011 4:18 PM


You can tell they're lying just from looking at the article itself:
Nebular theory must suppose that another physical body provides this force, such as other clouds already in collapse or unstable stars sending shock waves (density waves) into the surrounding space. Thus the theory presumes the pre-existence of a successfully-collapsing cloud or an already-formed star, which is what the theory seeks to explain in the first place. As theorists have said, Star formation can also be induced [or] triggered by a mechanism external to the clump. Shocks, which can be due to supernovae [unstable stars] or to cloud-cloud collisions, have been invoked frequently as a mechanism for inducing star formation.
They can't even lie properly, either through negligence or because they suppose that their target audience is so dumb they needn't bother.
As Jeff Hester, architect of the externally-driven hypothesis, explains:
There are two different sorts of environment where low-mass stars like the Sun form. In one kind of star-forming environment, you have a fairly quiescent process in which an undisturbed molecular cloud slowly collapses, forming a star here. a star there. The other type of environment in which Sun-like stars form is radically different.
So, Mikey, would you like to try again? This time, instead of the time-honored creationist method of snarf-and-barf, perhaps you could see if you could find something which is actually true, and not written by morons and/or liars. Thank you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 12-03-2011 4:18 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 8 of 40 (643014)
12-03-2011 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by NoNukes
12-03-2011 7:54 PM


Re: Threshold questions
This statement as presented is ridiculous. If clouds could collapse on their own, there would be no need for a mechanism to explain stars. I'm very suspicious of the ellipsis dots here.
The article as a whole contains nineteen ellipses and fifteen quotations that start in the middle of a sentence. While lesser creationists cherry-pick paragraphs and sentences, these guys are cherry-picking clauses --- and they still have to lie about the meaning of the quotations they produce by this butchery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by NoNukes, posted 12-03-2011 7:54 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 24 of 40 (643357)
12-06-2011 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by mike the wiz
12-06-2011 12:08 PM


Re: Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation
For example, if you predict transitional fossils, and you don't find them ...
... then you live in a fantasy world inside Mikey's head.
You forget that a theory, no matter how evidences, is not important compared to even one falsification, because of the deductive weight of the tollens.
You forget that stuff you've made up doesn't falsify things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by mike the wiz, posted 12-06-2011 12:08 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by mike the wiz, posted 12-06-2011 12:42 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 29 of 40 (643375)
12-06-2011 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by mike the wiz
12-06-2011 12:42 PM


Re: Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation
A worthless post that did not have any information, just the usual ad hominem attitude I come to expect. If you stopped to listen, maybe read over what I said, and thought about it, ironically you would see that what I say is genuine.
I did read it. I also thought about it. It is false. Specifically, your pretense that no transitional fossils have been found is false.
This is, by the way, "information". Things do not stop being information just because you don't like to hear them.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by mike the wiz, posted 12-06-2011 12:42 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by mike the wiz, posted 12-06-2011 2:50 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 30 of 40 (643377)
12-06-2011 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by mike the wiz
12-06-2011 12:40 PM


Re: Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation
That is not analogous to what I say.
Maybe not, but it is analogous to reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by mike the wiz, posted 12-06-2011 12:40 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by mike the wiz, posted 12-06-2011 2:59 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 33 of 40 (643430)
12-06-2011 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by mike the wiz
12-06-2011 2:50 PM


Re: Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation
Don't tell me that you thought I was actually claiming something with what I said in that message. No really, is that what you actually thought - that I was having a go at transitionals? The point was actually about logic itself, not transitionals.
Then it was a singularly ill-chosen example.
That was my point, it had nothing to do with transitionals, I merely USED the term for the example I was giving, this is why I told you to read into my posts instead of cynically scanning them, as though I am bursting to state something ugly about evolution.
Well, you are a creationist, aren't you? You opened this post by quoting creationist lies; it was not clear that when you referred to another creationist lie it was as a hypothetical rather than as an example of something you thought was true.
A theory being, "prevailent" does not mean it is true, otherwise, all of the "prevailent" theories of the past, such as spontaneous generation, or whatever was prevailent back then, would still be prevailent now. If prevailent or "accepted" = true, then that would mean to you were treating a mainstream consensus as an absolute.
This has, of course, nothing to do with anything I wrote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by mike the wiz, posted 12-06-2011 2:50 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by mike the wiz, posted 12-07-2011 8:02 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 34 of 40 (643431)
12-06-2011 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by mike the wiz
12-06-2011 2:59 PM


Re: Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation
No, because if you are saying that a theory of planetary evolution is the car crash, then you are stating, (again, LOGICALLY) - you are stating, (logically) that the actual planets themselves, and the solar systems, are the theory itself.
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by mike the wiz, posted 12-06-2011 2:59 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 39 of 40 (643463)
12-07-2011 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by mike the wiz
12-07-2011 8:02 AM


Re: Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation
I don't like the term, "Creationist" but unfortunately I have to use it on myself as it is the closest match there is to describing myself in a way that evolutionists will understand.
Intellectually, I am not a Creationist. By faith and belief, I am.
And so when you recite creationist nonsense, it is not clear when you mean it hypothetically, and when you actually mean it.
You misunderstood what I said, that's all. Is it a bad example because you didn't read properly?
It is a bad example because it is an example of something that didn't actually happen. There are lots of intermediate forms. If you want to produce an example of scientists being confuted by contrary evidence, then a better example would be a case in which they were, in fact, confuted by contrary evidence, rather than an example of a case in which in reality they were triumphantly vindicated.
Otherwise it just gets a bit weird. If you wanted to explain to someone what a carnivore was, would you say: "Well, for example, if cucumbers eat carrots, and carrots are made of meat, then cucumbers are carnivores"? That would be a bad example of a carnivore, 'cos of it being an example of something which is not in fact carnivorous eating something which it does not in fact eat and which is not in fact meat.
It goes a long way when you say such people are liars when they clearly aren't.
Er ... but they clearly are liars. And I note that you have not even tried to defend the lies that I have exposed. I showed up the lie, plain and simple. You won't even attempt to defend it. And yet you claim that they "clearly aren't" liars. Well, on the face of it, they clearly are. This is why I can show that they are with evidence and you have nothing to say in their defense but the mere assertion of a negative.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by mike the wiz, posted 12-07-2011 8:02 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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