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Author Topic:   Are you objective?
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 75 (775586)
01-03-2016 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by LamarkNewAge
01-02-2016 1:46 PM


Re: One issue I take with your comments
Black African immigrants (to the USA) and American-born blacks H-A-T-E each other. Aside from South African black-immigrants, I can assure you that black African-immigrants consider whites less racist against them than (multi-generational) African-Americans are. I'm not proud of the growing anti-immigrant views among Americans but (multi-generational) blacks are the worst.
If we are speaking in generalities, and it sounds like we are, then anecdotally I have witnessed similar findings that you are describing. I have seen American blacks treat Haitians and blacks from other countries with disdain, and I've seen blacks very upset about an increasing Asian and Hispanic population that are gentrifying neighborhoods that historically were almost entirely black-owned. Many black Africans view African-Americans with contempt for being disrespectful, and I've seen African-American's feeling superior because they were part of the slave trade which places them in a league of their own. I've witnessed all of that.
BUT, in the spirit of the OP on being objective, I've also seen the inverse to be true as well. I've seen white Americans being very receptive towards immigrants and I've seen others despising the idea. Take it all with a grain of salt, judge on a case-by-case basis and remember that painting with a fine tip produces greater accuracy than painting with a large brush.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-02-2016 1:46 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 75 (775587)
01-03-2016 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
01-02-2016 3:15 PM


Re: One issue I take with your comments
Thank you for this fine anecdotal example of lack of objectivity.
LOL! I thought it was a little ironic too given the thread's subject.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 28 of 75 (775588)
01-03-2016 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Straggler
01-02-2016 6:12 PM


Re: I'm responding to the "hot topics" issue.
One key to objectivity is a reliance on evidence. Evidence of actual cause and effect relationships. One indicator of lacking objectivity is a reliance on the citing of things people believe. E.g. Lots of people believe in gods so the existence of gods is evidenced. Or people believe themselves to be safer when they own a gun so guns make people safer. Or the relentless citation of what people believe about migration rather than the facts of the subject.... Etc.
All true, but it's also important to remember that in some cases the evidence itself may be skewed to fit an agenda. In terms of gun control, both proponents and opponents have a strong incentive to fluff information. It's kind of like manipulative polling tactics. The numbers may be accurate, but the questions themselves may be suspiciously loaded and designed to elicit a specific response.
Sometimes we can be overly-reliant on citations that may be questionable.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Straggler, posted 01-02-2016 6:12 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Straggler, posted 01-03-2016 3:32 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 75 (775589)
01-03-2016 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by LamarkNewAge
01-02-2016 7:08 PM


Re: I would have just left it after 1 post.
I made 1 post on the racial views on immigration OP comment.
I didn't expect people to argue with me (perhaps I should have).
The OP used three examples in the OP and this racial view on immigration issue was 1 out of 3 (33.33%).
People have been arguing with me ever since. Now you say I shouldn't even respond at all to the OP on the issue?
He was just using it as an example of a divisive topic where people can lose their objectivity. I don't think it was said as an invitation to discuss it at length.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-02-2016 7:08 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-03-2016 2:45 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 75 (775597)
01-03-2016 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Straggler
01-03-2016 3:32 AM


Re: I'm responding to the "hot topics" issue.
Evaluating evidence is part of taking an objective approach.
The tobacco industry and evidence on health effects is an example of where things can go wrong if people have an agenda, but ultimately facts are facts and there comes a point where the true picture becomes inarguable.
I would put forward climate change and gun advocacy as examples of those in denial about facts in much the same way that the tobacco industry was previously. All the same signs are there.
Of course I agree with what you are saying in principle. I am simply saying that some "evidence" is dubious and we shouldn't assume that it is necessarily accurate because they say it is.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Straggler, posted 01-03-2016 3:32 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Straggler, posted 01-03-2016 6:38 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 75 (775602)
01-03-2016 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Straggler
01-03-2016 6:38 AM


Re: I'm responding to the "hot topics" issue.
Where those sorts of things aren't present, or are inadequate, alarm bells regarding objectivity should be raised. Where you effectively have a lobby group paying for "research" these things are especially important.
Yes, agreed -- special interest groups or lobbyists is basically what I was alluding to.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 50 of 75 (775682)
01-04-2016 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by LamarkNewAge
01-03-2016 2:45 PM


Re: I would have just left it after 1 post.
The issue was not that you mentioned how blacks have demonstrated a strong anti-immigration stance but that it was said on this topic. It's a tangent that is completely out of left field as this topic is about objectivity.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-03-2016 2:45 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
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