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Author | Topic: Should a Creationist be allowed to hold a position of Authority? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I did not in any way provide a test that would exclude religious people, rather it is a test of their ability to examine evidence and make decisions based on the available evidence.
Not one of your points addresses the issue. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So word the test solely on the age of the earth.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I agree. I think it is a valid point and that no one who believes the universe or even the earth is only 6-10,000 years old should ever be allowed to hold a position where they need to make decisions that wil effct the lives of others.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5862 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
1. Last century nearly 100 million citizens were slaughtered by their athiestic secularist governments, beginning with the Bolshevik Revolution. Scores of millions of the surviving citizenry lived in terror, fear, poverty and repression, hoping to escape to the land of the free where creationists abounded, being the majority voting block in their representative government. . First of all the Soviet Union was not an atheist government. Didn't they OUTLAW religion? Why would an atheist outlaw religion? This is one thing believers don't understand..... to an atheist outlawing religion would be like outlawing the tooth fairy!IMO, the soviet union was basically a theocracy where GOD = THE STATE. People there were taught that the state had agents with all kinds of powers (some even supernatural) including ESP, Clarivoyance, etc. Does that sound like something atheists would promote? (off-topic, but the soviet union wasn't socialist either. It was a oligarchial dictatorship). The most blessed, free and prosperous nation in history, the US of A was designed, originated and headed by majority of creationists with the Bible, from which the creationist story originated, being used in the schools over 100 years after it's founding and another 100+ years previous to it's founding. Completely false. How many times do we have to go over this? Many of the founding fathers including the most important (Jefferson) and one of the most important (franklin) were deists or atheists!!! In fact, one of the main themes of our new country was the freedom of religion and separation of church and state!
God fearing heads of state, having a sense of accountability to a higher power, will likely tend towards justice, equity and righteousness so as not to be held accountable in the after life judgement. This, imo, trumps the science argument as to origins, relative to how well one governs. You can't be serious. 1000s of years of history has proven you absolutely wrong. Inquisitions, crusades, pogroms, fatwahs, stonings, burnings, have all gone on throughout history. The most religious governments on earth are located in the middle east.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
The secularist persecutive and intollerant regimes of China, North Korea, Cuba, Laos, et al are modern examples of how citizens fare under secularist governments which restrict Christian worship and other activity. I'll take GWB any day over any of these. Which of you would prefer living under these regimes?
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What does that have to do with the point of the thread.
No where do I propose that religious people be kept out of government. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5862 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
The secularist persecutive and intollerant regimes of China, North Korea, Cuba, Laos, et al are modern examples of how citizens fare under secularist governments which restrict Christian worship and other activity. I'll take GWB any day over any of these. Which of you would prefer living under these regimes? Those regimes are irrelevant because they are no democracies. A better example of a more secular democracy would be france.
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5862 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
The secularist persecutive and intollerant regimes of China, North Korea, Cuba, Laos, et al are modern examples of how citizens fare under secularist governments which restrict Christian worship and other activity. I'll take GWB any day over any of these. Which of you would prefer living under these regimes? Those regimes are irrelevant because they are not democracies. A better example of a more secular democracy would be france. This message has been edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, 02-08-2006 01:11 PM
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Matt P Member (Idle past 4803 days) Posts: 106 From: Tampa FL Joined: |
Sorry for the bare post, but this email was circulated by some of my peers.
From the NY Times:
A Young Bush Appointee Resigns His Post at NASA By ANDREW C. REVKINGeorge C. Deutsch, the young presidential appointee at NASA who told public affairs workers to limit reporters' access to a top climate scientist and told a Web designer to add the word "theory" at every mention of the Big Bang, resigned yesterday, agency officials said. Mr. Deutsch's resignation came on the same day that officials at TexasA&M University confirmed that he did not graduate from there, as his résumé on file at the agency asserted. Officials at NASA headquarters declined to discuss the reason for theresignation. "Under NASA policy, it is inappropriate to discuss personnel matters,"said Dean Acosta, the deputy assistant administrator for public affairs and Mr. Deutsch's boss. The resignation came as the National Aeronautics and SpaceAdministration was preparing to review its policies for communicating science to the public. The review was ordered Friday by Michael D. Griffin, the NASA administrator, after a week in which many agency scientists and midlevel public affairs officials described to The New York Times instances in which they said political pressure was applied to limit or flavor discussions of topics uncomfortable to the Bush administration, particularly global warming. "As we have stated in the past, NASA is in the process of revising ourpublic affairs policies across the agency to ensure our commitment to open and full communications," the statement from Mr. Acosta said. The statement said the resignation of Mr. Deutsch was "a separatematter." Mr. Deutsch, 24, was offered a job as a writer and editor in NASA'spublic affairs office in Washington last year after working on President Bush's re-election campaign and inaugural committee, according to his résumé. No one has disputed those parts of the document. According to his résumé, Mr. Deutsch received a "Bachelor of Arts injournalism, Class of 2003." Yesterday, officials at Texas A&M said that was not the case. "George Carlton Deutsch III did attend Texas A&M University but has notcompleted the requirements for a degree," said an e-mail message from Rita Presley, assistant to the registrar at the university, responding to a query from The Times. Repeated calls and e-mail messages to Mr. Deutsch on Tuesday were notanswered. Mr. Deutsch's educational record was first challenged on Monday by NickAnthis, who graduated from Texas A&M last year with a biochemistry degree and has been writing a Web log on science policy, scientificactivist.blogspot.com. After Mr. Anthis read about the problems at NASA, he said in aninterview: "It seemed like political figures had really overstepped the line. I was just going to write some commentary on this when somebody tipped me off that George Deutsch might not have graduated." He posted a blog entry asserting this after he checked with theuniversity's association of former students. He reported that the association said Mr. Deutsch received no degree. A copy of Mr. Deutsch's résumé was provided to The Times by someoneworking in NASA headquarters who, along with many other NASA employees, said Mr. Deutsch played a small but significant role in an intensifying effort at the agency to exert political control over the flow of information to the public. Such complaints came to the fore starting in late January, when JamesE. Hansen, the climate scientist, and several midlevel public affairs officers told The Times that political appointees, including Mr. Deutsch, were pressing to limit Dr. Hansen's speaking and interviews on the threats posed by global warming. Yesterday, Dr. Hansen said that the questions about Mr. Deutsch'scredentials were important, but were a distraction from the broader issue of political control of scientific information. "He's only a bit player," Dr. Hansen said of Mr. Deutsch. " The problemis much broader and much deeper and it goes across agencies. That's what I'm really concerned about." "On climate, the public has been misinformed and not informed," hesaid. "The foundation of a democracy is an informed public, which obviously means an honestly informed public. That's the big issue here." So he was inappropriate for the job for a second reason: dishonesty.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: While there is a definite seperation of Church and State, should ANYONE that believes in the literal Creation story as laid out in Genesis be allowed to hold a position of authority and influence such a US President or Prime Minister of England?Although this should not be seen as a religious test, is it a valid test of the person's capability to assimilate data, form rational conclusions, accept new information, and formulate policy? I likely speak for many when I say that Biblical IDists are at least equally as rational as anyone who thinks all of the energy of the entire universe, i.e. the entire universe, once occupied a submicroscopic area of space billions of times smaller than the proton of an atom as Rich Gore of the National Geographic claimed. Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes, you can say that. However there is one really big difference.
To believe in the BB we have evidence. To believe in a Young Earth we must willfully deny the evidence. One is a belief based on evidence, the other is a belief in spite of the evidence. Thanks for bringing up the difference, it's a classic example of why anyone who believes in a Young Earth should not be allowed into a position of power. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5862 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
I likely speak for many when I say that Biblical IDists are at least equally as rational as anyone who thinks all of the energy of the entire universe, i.e. the entire universe, once occupied a submicroscopic area of space billions of times smaller than the proton of an atom as Rich Gore of the National Geographic claimed. I believe that all of space-time has been expanding. Which would mean that the concept of "size" doesn't really apply. We can say the universe is expanding or contracting but have no way to judge it's size. You can not judge the size of something that has no frame of reference. It's like saying Infinity < Infinity
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: To believe in the BB we have evidence. To believe in a Young Earth we must willfully deny the evidence. I've never argued for a young earth and I don't know how GWB believes on that, but as for folks who do, many don't give serious thought or concern to origins. They may have an opinion on it, but may not care enough to think and study it out, not considering it an important enough issue to do so. That doesn't mean they may not be very intelligent, efficient, upright and wise statesmen, such as heads of state, doctors, theologians, chemists or whatever. After all, what bearing does the age of the earth have to do with managing a nation or other positions involving authority? Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
actually, the Soviets were atheists....they believed in science though and so explored areas of reality, like ESP, that some in the West have chosen to despise, but they were still an officially and very serious atheist regime.
The fact they advocated worship of the State as you put it may make them "religious" just as I might add an atheist evolutionist can be very religious in his devotion to evolution, secularism and atheism, but all that shows is that atheism can be it's own religion. The Soviets definitelty despised belief in God.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
If you ask me, many evos have been willfully denying the evidence for 100 years passing off false claims as factual, denying the basic character of the fossil record, etc...
Maybe people who believe in ToE and abiogenesis should not be allowed to hold office, eh? I certainly don't want the kind of self-righteousness you exhibit jar in the people that hold office.
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