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Author Topic:   Have we halted our own Evolution?
pesto
Member (Idle past 5618 days)
Posts: 63
From: Chicago, IL
Joined: 04-05-2006


Message 65 of 79 (303022)
04-10-2006 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by crashfrog
03-17-2006 4:21 PM


My point, which I made in an oblique and possibly rude way, is that there's considerably more to evolution than fatal negative selection, the culling of the weak/diseased, etc. Sometimes that kind of selection is the first step. But the second step, in organisms that reproduce sexually, is finding someone to mate with you. We don't do that at random, so that's a selective - and evolutionary - influence.
However, an argument could be made that some of the pressure from sexual selection has been removed, as well. Just as selective pressure for good eye sight has diminished due to the invention of glasses, less sexually desirable people have a number of recently developed cosmetic options available. There are breast implants for women. It is possible to stretch leg bones for short men (a la Gattaca, although I doubt anyone has done this for cosmetic reasons).

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pesto
Member (Idle past 5618 days)
Posts: 63
From: Chicago, IL
Joined: 04-05-2006


Message 66 of 79 (303027)
04-10-2006 7:07 PM


Addiction
I have recently been thinking about addiction as a selective force. I was reading "Cracked" by Dr. Drew, and there was a tangential comment about how the same traits that make people more vulnerable to addiction give them tenacity that would aid in survival under harsh conditions. Assuming this is true, addiction could be one of the strongest selective forces in developed countries.
Back in "the day" when we were first figuring out how to use bronze and iron, we didn't have things like alcohol and cocaine. This addictive nature/tenacity would only have aided in survival. With modern science we have developed all sorts of addictive agents that are wreaking havoc on some sectors of our population. A good example of this would be the prevalance of alcoholism among American Indians versus the European settlers. The old world cultures knew of alcohol for several thousand years, and as such had evolved a tolerance for it. American Indians hadn't come in contact with it, and as such had a much weaker tolerance.
Thoughts? New thread, possibly?

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pesto
Member (Idle past 5618 days)
Posts: 63
From: Chicago, IL
Joined: 04-05-2006


Message 70 of 79 (303146)
04-11-2006 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by EZscience
04-10-2006 9:24 PM


pesto writes:
...an argument could be made that some of the pressure from sexual selection has been removed...less sexually desirable people have a number of recently developed cosmetic options available.
You are making the rather tenuous assumption that mate selection (for purposes of actual reproduction) will be based soley on overt physical features
Okay, not removed, but lessened. There isn't really a way to fake intelligence the way there is to fake some physical traits, but that assumes that intelligence is largely based on genetics. My comment was aimed mainly at physical traits, though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by EZscience, posted 04-10-2006 9:24 PM EZscience has replied

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 Message 71 by EZscience, posted 04-11-2006 9:51 AM pesto has replied

  
pesto
Member (Idle past 5618 days)
Posts: 63
From: Chicago, IL
Joined: 04-05-2006


Message 73 of 79 (303262)
04-11-2006 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by EZscience
04-11-2006 9:51 AM


Re: Sexual Selection in Humans
EZscience writes:
remember we have effectively divorced 'recreational sexual actitivy' from 'reproductive sexual activity'. We might sleep with someone of lower IQ, but we are unlikely to marry and have children with them.
Point taken, but the divorce of recreational from reproductive sexual activity is not 100%. I wouldn't put it anywhere near 100%.
And intelligence does have a high degree of heritability, believe it or not.
Yes. Smart parents --> smart kids. The question is, what has the greater influence, genetics or being raised by smart parents? I would say the latter has the greater influence, but won't discount the former.

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 Message 71 by EZscience, posted 04-11-2006 9:51 AM EZscience has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by crashfrog, posted 04-11-2006 3:28 PM pesto has replied
 Message 75 by EZscience, posted 04-11-2006 3:29 PM pesto has not replied

  
pesto
Member (Idle past 5618 days)
Posts: 63
From: Chicago, IL
Joined: 04-05-2006


Message 78 of 79 (303485)
04-12-2006 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by crashfrog
04-11-2006 3:28 PM


Re: Sexual Selection in Humans
crashfrog writes:
Point taken, but the divorce of recreational from reproductive sexual activity is not 100%. I wouldn't put it anywhere near 100%.
Less than 1 out of every 500 acts of penetrative, heterosexual intercourse actually results in a birth.
I'm not sure that would be the best measure. I think a better measure would be to compare numbers of births due to "recreational" vs. "reproductive" intercourse. I'm not sure exaclty how we would draw that line, though.
When I think about it, though, you are probably still right that most births result from reproductive intercourse, but it would be very interesting to get those numbers.
This message has been edited by pesto, 04-12-2006 10:04 AM

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 Message 74 by crashfrog, posted 04-11-2006 3:28 PM crashfrog has replied

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