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Author Topic:   Big Bang Origin?
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 50 of 57 (283769)
02-03-2006 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by pianoprincess*
02-03-2006 9:23 PM


matter came from
The problem comes from thinking linearly.
There was no before the big bang for there to have been matter to exist in to be involved in the big bang.
The big bang theory isn't about where did the universe come from, its just a description of the universe. It has length, breadth, height and time.
Its very confusing. As I am typing this I am about 3 metres above the ground, 1 metre away from my north wall and half a metre from the east wall. But I am also about +15,000,000,000 years after the universe was very hot and very dense.
I found it very hard to really appreciate this, and its quite a trippy experience when you 'get' it.
So, at the moment science simply sticks with 'The universe exists, here are its dimensions and how they work and interact'. Science does not know what 'caused' the universe to exist, if anything did. Unfortunately we have learned that some things don't happen because something causes them to, they just happen. Hopefully something did cause us to happen, but I'm open to the possibility that nothing did and we just are.
I doubt science is going to explain any of that in the near future. The laws of reality that occur outside of our universe may well (probably are) different from the laws that occur within it (what we call the laws of nature). In that sense these possible 'meta' laws, are metaphysical in nature and are supernatural). It might not be possible to ever learn about these laws in any direct way, but we might be able to deduce them as time passes. Some scientists are trying to do this very thing, and some interesting ideas have surfaced.

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 Message 48 by pianoprincess*, posted 02-03-2006 9:23 PM pianoprincess* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by pianoprincess*, posted 02-04-2006 2:14 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 54 of 57 (283832)
02-04-2006 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by pianoprincess*
02-04-2006 2:14 AM


Re: matter came from
I fthere was no before, then there couldn't have been an after. and we are quite obviously after, according to your theory. =)
Actually, there is no 'after' in a sense either.
There is no after the universe any more than there is a before the universe as described by the big bang. The big bang merely describes the universe as-is. It can't explain what happens 'after' the universe, or 'before' the universe and it can't necessarily explain if it makes any sense to consider before and after anyway.
All it can say is that the smaller the time dimension the hotter and denser the universe was, the greater the time dimension the cooler and more spread out the universe is.
To us, time is divided into Past, present, future. When Time is 0s there is no past, so trying to work out what happened before it, according to our models of time, is practically impossible.
What happens before time starts? What happens after time ends?
How can something happen if there is no time for it to happen in?
Big questions.
There is an 'after' Time=0
There is a 'before' Time=maximum
All we can describe is the universe between these two points (if the latter point exists at all)
so big bang/evolutionary thinkers don't have a theory for where the universe came from?
There are some interesting ideas, but no solid theories. As I said, it might not be possible to use the laws of nature to deduce how the laws of nature came into being...though we might uncover some of the meta-physics, its unlikely we'll know the whole caboodle.
However, many people that accept General Relativity/Big Bang/Evolution have their own ideas about how the universe got here. Cavediver is the biggest big bang/relativity guy in these forums right now, and he believes that the Christian God brought the universe into existence and our theories merely describe that which God created. Read some of his posts to get a more accurate idea on his thoughts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by pianoprincess*, posted 02-04-2006 2:14 AM pianoprincess* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by pianoprincess*, posted 02-04-2006 12:31 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 57 of 57 (283890)
02-04-2006 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by pianoprincess*
02-04-2006 12:31 PM


Re: matter came from
So it mostly liekly came form something other than 'natural' in the sense that we are used to speaking of?
Where nature means = universe. Then yes. It could be that our natural laws are really only a subset of the Great Rules of Reality. The Great Rules are 'natural' but not in the way we traditionally mean natural. Or it could be that the Great Rules are heavenly in nature, or anything else that is beyond our ken.

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 Message 55 by pianoprincess*, posted 02-04-2006 12:31 PM pianoprincess* has not replied

  
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