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Author Topic:   Limits of Science
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 81 (303164)
04-11-2006 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by simple
04-11-2006 3:59 AM


quote:
These deal with things in the present, and several thousand years in the past.
Only several thousand years in the past? That seems rather arbitrary.
Actually, science only deals with things in the present. Science is based on evidence, which can only be phenomena that occur right now. However, we can infer the past from observing the present. Not every concievable past is possible given what we know about the present.
It so happens, that the geological and biological sciences are full of evidence, today, by which we can reach reasonable conclusions about the past. The possibilities of what the past could have been like are contrained by the actual conditions we see in the present.
This involves making assumptions about the past, of course. However, the remarkable thing is that it leads to a very consistent history of the earth and the universe. There is no reason to expect that any assumption about the past will not be supported by some evidence and contradicted by other evidence. The assumption that the earth is only 6000 years old, for example, or that there was a global flood about 4500 years ago is contradicted by evidence we see today.
By recognizing that we understand the geologic processes that formed the statigraphic layers in the geologic record, scientists have reconstructed a reasonably detailed account of the history of the earth. This history, unlike the Genesis account of the creation of the world, suffers from no contradictions in the evidence. That these assumptions that we understand how these processes operated are consistent with all the evidence that we have is remarkable -- it would an amazing coincidence that nature is such that we could reconstruct such a detailed, consistent, yet wrong history of the planet.
Added by edit:
These issues were also discussed in this thread, or at least in the portions of this thead in which I participated.
This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 11-Apr-2006 02:20 PM

"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by simple, posted 04-11-2006 3:59 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by simple, posted 04-12-2006 3:32 AM Chiroptera has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 81 (303464)
04-12-2006 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by simple
04-12-2006 3:32 AM


Re: No evidence exists
quote:
This is the bottom line when science of today is attempted to be applied to the future, or even far past!
This is because not all possible scenarios for the history of the earth are consistent with what we observe today. For example, the special creation of the earth only 6000 years ago and a global flook about 4500 years ago would suggest we should observe certain things about the world today. These observations are not seen, and, in fact, contradictory observations are seen, and so special creation 6000 years ago and a subsequent global flood can be ruled out as reasonable hypotheses.
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quote:
This involves making assumptions about the past, of course. However, the remarkable thing is that it leads to a very consistent history of the earth and the universe.
So what? I have another. Absolutely.
If you are speaking of a literal reading of Genesis, then you don't. A literal reading of Genesis contradicts what we see in the world today. A literal reading of Genesis would suggest that we should see certain things today in the geologic and archaeologic record that we do not see.
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quote:
There is no reason to expect that any assumption about the past will not be supported by some evidence and contradicted by other evidence.
Finish the line of thought here, let's be honest. 'There is no reason to expect that any assumption about the past will be supported by some evidence and contradicted by other evidence'
A statement, if true, does not imply that its converse is true. There is good reason to expect that an arbitrary assumption about the past will contradicted by evidence: the evidence exists in many different fields of science, and is collected and examined under many different methodologies. It would be quite remarkable that an incorrect assumption about the past will be supported by so many varied lines of evidence.
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quote:
You can assume otherwise, but you also need to prove it.
That the assumptions lead to a consistent history of the world that is supported by physical evidence is all the "proof" that we need. This is all that is required. Newton did not have to do experiments on every single planet in the universe to "prove" his universal law of gravity. Merely pointing out the evidence that was accessible to him and his contemporaries was enough for its acceptance.
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quote:
Cause what we see is exactly what is expected as well if the spiritual was seperated from the physical.
Actually, I don't see how any kind of "spriritual" explains the consistency of radiometric dating, why we see stars that are farther than 6000 light years away, or why all known species can be classified in a hierarchical classification scheme.
Of course, you can assume otherwise. You can assume that people can really fly by jumping off of buildings, and you can claim that it only seems otherwise because of "the spiritual was seperated from the physical", but I wouldn't recommend putting this assumption in practice.
It would be much safer to put your assumption about the history of the world into practice. Put forward a very detailed scenario of the history of the world, as well as how the detailed evidence in geology, biology, and astronomy that we actually see is produced in the course of your history.
It'll be big book, probably several volumes, but should be worth reading.

"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by simple, posted 04-12-2006 3:32 AM simple has not replied

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