The problem is how to discern which is closer to your realist viewpoint that "Eternal truth exists" and to search for what those "unseen eternal truths" actually are -- how do you "peel the layers off the onion" when there are no {logical \ rational \ scientific} methodologies to guide one. (ignoring the fact there is only one layer to an onion).
Theistic methodology and our unseen eternal truths are based upon evidence and facts - just like yours (supposedly).
Your error is this assumption that "logic and rationality" are absent in theistic methodologies.
Faith is based upon evidence contrary to its reputation.
IF Jesus rose from the dead as He said He would prior to His death THEN this IF TRUE becomes the basis to conclude everything else He said to be objective truth.
If someone says they are going to die and raise from the dead according to the promise of the Father THEN if they do indeed raise this makes them the most important Person of all time.
Did Jesus raise from the dead ?
The evidence says He did:
http://www.drgenescott.com/thearchives.htm then click "subject" then click "The Resurrection".
VF-424 WebTV 4/7/85 The Resurrection: A Factual Basis; Who Moved the Stone by Morison; Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis (taught at the Shrine Auditorium)
VF-631 WebTV 03/26/89 The Resurrection: Facts & Theories
VF-681 WebTV 03/11/90 Faith: Three Disciple's Reactions to the Reality af a Miracle - The Resurrection Message (John 6)
VF-687 WebTV 04/22/90 The Choice Forced by uhe Unique Claims of Jesus Christ - A Background for The Resurrection
VF-688 WebTV 04/29/90 The Resurrection: Proof of Our Faith - A Look At The Evidence
VF-792 WebTV 04/19/92 The Resurrection
VF-990 WebTV 2/11/96 The Basis For Our Faith, Part 1
VF-991 WebTV 2/18/96 The Basis For Our Faith, Part 2
VF-992 WebTV 2/25/96 The Basis For Our Faith, Part 3
VF-993 WebTV 3/3/96 The Basis For Our Faith, Part 4
VF-995 WebTV 3/17/96 The Basis For Our Faith, Part 5
VF-998 WebTV 04/07/96 Proof of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ
VF-999 WebTV 04/14/96 The Resurrection via Deuteronomy 8:2
VF-1042 WebTV 02/09/97 Basic Christianity Defined: The Church's "Self" via the Resurrection
VF-1047 WebTV 03/16/97 Basic Christianity Defined: The Law, Resurrected Christ & Bond of Faith
VF-1049 WebTV 03/30/97 Basic Christianity Defined and The Resurrection (Easter)
VF-1055 WebTV 05/11/97 Basic Christianity Defined: The Resurrection & the Sign of Jonah
VF-1064 WebTV 07/13/97 Basic Christianity Defined: - A Basis For Faith: The Resurrection (Part 1)
VF-1065 WebTV 07/20/97 Basic Christianity Defined: - A Basis For Faith: The Resurrection, The Facts (Part 2)
VF-1066 WebTV 07/27/97 Basic Christianity Defined: - A Basis For Faith: The Resurrection, Faith Not Perfection (Part 3)
VF-1103 WebTV 04/12/98 The Resurrection (Part 1)
VF-1104 WebTV 04/19/98 The Resurrection: The Evidence (Part 2)
VF-1154 WebTV 04/04/99 The Resurrection 1999
VF-1208 WebTV 04/23/00 Romans 1 Verse 17 (G) - The Resurrection (Part 1)
VF-1209 WebTV 05/07/00 Romans 1 Verse 17 (H) - The Resurrection (Part 2)
VF-1210 WebTV 05/14/00 Romans 1 Verse 17 - The Resurrection (Part 3)
VF-1211 WebTV 05/21/00 Romans 1 Verse 17 - The Resurrection (Part 4)
VF-1212 WebTV 05/28/00 Romans 1 Verse 17 (K) - The Resurrection (Part 5)
VF-1256 WebTV 04/18/01 Romans 1 Verses 21 & 22 - The Resurrection (Part 1)
VF-1257 WebTV 04/15/01 Romans 1 Verses 21 & 22 - The Resurrection (Part 2)
VF-1303 WebTV 3/31/02 Romans 2 Verses 4 & 5 - The Resurrection
VF-1357 WebTV 4/20/03 The Resurrection
VF-1407 WebTV 4/11/04 Romans 3 Verse 25 - The Resurrection
Therefore because Jesus raised this is the basis to believe in all the unseen eternal truths that He spoke of.
Scientific methodologies are only defective in ONE aspect:
IF they EXCLUDE the Creator then the Bible tells us why.
God sense DOES NOT require belief in Jesus - just the genuine acknowledgement that there is a universal God and a word of thanks. (Romans 1)
Those two requirements cannot be faked and forestall any revocation of God sense.
But the point is that TM are based upon facts - objective facts IF Jesus rose. IF He rose then His subjective views as found in the Bible become objective eternal truth.
OTOH, scientific methodologies only cover natural reality but regularly trespass into supernatural realities via a philosophic position usually offered as scientific proof.
I wish SM would obey their own Divine neutral clauses but as I have argued relentlessly the alleged neutrality is non-existent. EVERYBODY has conclusions about God whether they admit it or not.
Zukav writes:
What is nonsense and what is not, then, may be merely a matter of perspective.
Not a bad conclusion by Zukav at all.
The Bible says ones perspective is ultimately determined by God.
If true this makes N.T. christianity esotericism.
What is true for me may not be true for you and vice versa. The test of the truth of any view is how well it explains everything in a consistent, logical, manner versus how many things are label as "nonsense" - the higher the "nonsense" quotient the more inconsistent the view.
Okay, but the nonsense quotient is determined one radical way or the other via the existence of God or His non existence.
If He exists THEN theistic methodology has a zero quotient and if He does not then the quotient is off the scale ?
You ended by further examining the tree falling.
Sound exists whether we possess the ability to hear it or not ?
Idealism, at its root, makes themselves the center of attention/reality instead of God.
I hate to cut your post short but I must suddenly go off-line.
WT
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