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Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Mustard-seed faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: Then why was Jesus so disappointed in people because they did not have enough faith? It would be like me being disappointed in my dog because she couldn't jump onto a 20 foot roof.
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General Nazort Inactive Member |
Then why was Jesus so disappointed in people because they did not have enough faith? It would be like me being disappointed in my dog because she couldn't jump onto a 20 foot roof. Because he had been helping them grow their faith but they still did not have enough. They had seen all the miracles he had done, etc. It is not all up to God to help you grow your faith - it is up to the individual as well. We still have to work at it, and the disciples did not work hard enough. If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: Why should they work towards something that is impossible to reach because they are "just humans"?
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General Nazort Inactive Member |
Why should they work towards something that is impossible to reach because they are "just humans"? ARGH!! That is what I have been explaining the whole time! It IS impossible if you are "just human," but WITH GODS HELP it is POSSIBLE! So I don't understand my homework and cannot complete it without my dads help. Why should I work hard to complete it if I can't do it? But I CAN do it with his help, and I ALSO need to work hard! So I can't create this painting without help from my art teacher. Why should I work hard to paint it if I can't do it? But I CAN do it with my teachers help, and I ALSO need to work hard on it! If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?
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General Nazort Inactive Member |
Sorry, got a little excited there
If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: So why don't we see christians moving mountains with the power of faith?
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General Nazort Inactive Member |
So why don't we see christians moving mountains with the power of faith? Because even with God's help it is very hard and most do not achieve it in this lifetime. There is evidence of faith, just not as powerful as moving mountains. Like George Mueller. No one has commented on him yet... If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?
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CK Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
I've seen some fanciful stories about the guy - what in particular are you refering to ?
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General Nazort Inactive Member |
Stories about food being provided for his orphanage when he had no food, right as they sat down to eat. A milkcart broke down in front of the orphanage so they got some milk, a baker brought over some bread, etc.
Here are some stories and such about him: http://www.christianadoption.com/goals/mueller.htm Mueller wrote a long series of recordings called Narrative of the Lord's Dealings with George Muller, in which he detailed how God miraculously provided for him. That is at this link:http://jcsm.org/StudyCenter/articles/preacher82.html If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?
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CK Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
em ... that's a bit circular isn't it - God provided for me because I said he did.
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: So how can I tell the difference between Jesus being wrong and humans not having enough faith?
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
By the same token, I should also pray to the saint Saty Sai Baba, for he seems to work miracles as well. From http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general240.html :
Maharaj Krishna Rasgotra, a retired foreign secretary of India, remembers the precise day almost 30 years ago when he became a devotee of Saty Sai Baba, India's most celebrated living saint. Over the years, the government official often witnessed Baba work his signature miracleproducing out of air mounds of vibhuti, sacred ash that his devotees credit with healing properties. But it was in 1986 that Rasgotra experienced Baba's power firsthand. After suffering a heart attack, Rasgotra lay in a hospital recovery room. Among the hovering doctors and nurses he saw Baba, though the saint was a thousand miles away. When physicians told him he needed bypass surgery to avoid a fatal attack, Rasgotra consulted Baba in person, who told him he didn't need it. Rasgotra skipped surgery and today, at 75, he plays 18 holes of golf regularly. "I have total faith in Baba," says Rasgotra. "Whatever he says comes about. Whenever you are with him you feel you're shedding something and acquiring a new kind of life." Don't forget that the Christian God is hardly the only one being credited for miracles world wide. The production of miracles through faith and prayer does not belong to the Christian faith alone.
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General Nazort Inactive Member |
em ... that's a bit circular isn't it - God provided for me because I said he did. There can only be so many coincidences before one must reasonably conclude God is doing it. That is what George Mueller concluded. His many extremely specific prayers were answered again and again? Luck? Or God? If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?
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General Nazort Inactive Member |
So how can I tell the difference between Jesus being wrong and humans not having enough faith? You can tell if there is evidence that some humans DO have enough faith.
Don't forget that the Christian God is hardly the only one being credited for miracles world wide. The production of miracles through faith and prayer does not belong to the Christian faith alone. True. One must examine the claims of each supposed miracle. Some may be coincidence, some may be illusion, some may be real miracles. If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: So would it be accurate to say that someone's faith is measured by the miracles they perform? Or is there another way to measure faith?
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