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Author Topic:   Indoctrination
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 17 of 32 (462470)
04-03-2008 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Blue Jay
04-03-2008 12:33 PM


Hiding the answer is a form of Indoctrination
Bluejay writes:
Likewise, how is it different when science textbooks say "dinosaurs lived millions of years ago?" Fourth grade textbooks don't typically include evidence for what they teach. I'm torn on this issue, because I consider the information taught to them to be factual (and it has good evidence for it), but they probably couldn't understand the evidence, even if it was given to them in the textbooks, so I couldn't advocate teaching them the evidence.
I never understood this approach to parenting. Why would you assume your child can't understand something, and therefore decide not to even attempt to teach them? Isn't it possible that your child could understand it at an age lower then you think normal? If so, wouldn't you then be delaying their education by witholding your teaching until you decide they're "ready"?
I don't see the downside in teaching them anyway. Sure, if your child decides it's simply way over their head, and runs off to play dinky cars or whatever, then yeah, then feel free to put it off 'till later. But why simply assume your child is not ready for something when you do not know until you try? Especially when this could lead to slowing down their progress.
To tie this back to your topic, I would suggest that in deciding your child is not ready to learn something without giving them the chance to prove you wrong is in itself a form of indoctrination. Kind of like how neglect is a form of abuse. In effect, you're hiding information from them. That is, if they do indeed happen to be ready to learn the information.
Is indoctrination as widespread/common as some of us non-theists think?
As you (or others?) suggest, I think it's very difficult not to do this to some degree. And I agree that we should all be on our guard to constantly reduce the amount of indoctrination we produce onto children (or anyone, really).
How do you draw the line between “education” and “indoctrination?”
I'd say education is showing how you get to your answer. And indoctrination is refusing to allow any other possible pathway to the answer. This refusal can be direct (saying other options are wrong) or indirect (not mentioning competitive alternatives).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Blue Jay, posted 04-03-2008 12:33 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Blue Jay, posted 04-04-2008 1:53 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 19 of 32 (462521)
04-04-2008 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Blue Jay
04-04-2008 1:53 PM


Re: Hiding the answer is a form of Indoctrination
Bluejay writes:
However, I do want to pick one bone here: there's too much evidence to reasonably teach. There's a sequence that needs to be roughly followed in teaching in-depth evidence.
Sorry, didn't mean to come off as so brash. I didn't mean to imply a strict, full-blown lesson was somehow mandatory.
All I intended was to let the child's curiosity lead their lesson's rather then our own opinion of "when they're ready".
This would drive me toward paranoia.
If raising kids doesn't do this to you, you're probably doing it wrong
A lot of IDists claim that science is doing the indirect thing often: only sharing one side of the story. Technically, they're right: we don't teach their side. But, could this also be considered indoctrination?
Yes, it could be considered as such. But that's why I qualified 'alternatives' with the word competitive alternatives.
Personally, I just don't really feel like getting into why ID isn't a competitive alternative to evolution right now. I'm feeling lazy But if you do want to raise it as a viable point of contention, I'm sure plenty of others would love to talk it over with you. After all, that's what most of this site is about

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Blue Jay, posted 04-04-2008 1:53 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Blue Jay, posted 04-04-2008 4:45 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
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