Stop Trying To Prove Gods Existence

quote:

---

A man decides to beat a childs head in with a spade.... IF WE CANNOT DECIDE THAT THIS IS WRONG THAT MAN CAN WALK FREE!!!

---

This is true. But it has nothing to do with there being an absolute moral code.

quote:

---

Just because a lunatic decides it is morally correct to kill children does not mean that he shud be allowed to be free to commit such actions.

---

This is also true. But we are talking about whether there is an absolute moral code.Note to the moderators: I'm not sure whether I have derailed the original topic of this thread. I will accept your guidance.

well those two truths!!! are part of an absolute moral code... even if they are the only two things on that code.U seem to think that i am telling you that it is absolutely correct to not kill animals or to kill animals... i am not!!! i understand that is in debate.But when it comes to killing children there is no debate... it is wrong and is part of an absolute moral code...even if the moral code only contains a few things that are absolutely wrong... an absolute moral code exists!

Hi Chiroptera,I think the discussion of an absolute moral code is related to the subject, although there are signs that it may come to dominate this thread. Perhaps just one or two more messages related to the absolute code and if members want to continue discussing it, then it could be the subject of a new thread.Thankyou for being aware of the topic drift, it makes our job easier.AdminBrian

There is a debate about whether killing kids is wrong: Joshua chp. 6:21:
Then they devoted to destruction by the edge of the sword all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys. Joshua 7:24-26:
Then Joshua and all Israel with him took Achan son of Zerah, with the silver, the mantle, and the bar of gold, with his sons and daughters, with his oxen, donkeys, and sheep, and his tent and all that he had; and they brought them up to the Valley of Achor. Joshua said, "Why did you bring trouble on us? The LORD is bringing trouble on you today." And all Israel stoned him to death; they burned them with fire, cast stones on them, and raised over him a great heap of stones that remains to this day. Joshua 8:26,27
For Joshua did not draw back his hand, with which he stretched out the sword, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai. Only the livestock and the spoil of that city Israel took as their booty, according to the word of the LORD that he had issued to Joshua.It is well known that there is no absolute moral code against killing children. People have always done this, culturally sanctioned. So, no, I am afraid that killing children is (or was) a debate.Again, you need to provide some evidence that there is an absolute moral code.

thou shalt not kill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The killings in the verses I quoted were done at the command of Yahweh.AdminBrian: I see your point. I will only post one or two more times on this topic. I think that Reef and I are running out of intelligible things to say.

ok in the interests of bringing this to a head...ile concide to agree that nobody has the right to say what is right and wrong in a theoretical sense.if u concide that in a realistic world that the more intelligent people need to dictate what is morally wrong, to stop rapes, murders and suchlike.In a realistic world there is a moral code that is adhered to for the interest of keeping social order ..

I would an even stronger statement.Humans evolved from an ancestral primate, which are social animals. So it makes sense that there may be certain innate behaviors that would lead humans to try to maintain social cohesion. One of these things, I would claim, is that we have an innate distaste to see others hurt, and we even have an innate urge to help others if we can.So, many of our social norms, morality, and so forth are not merely a conscious intent to keep social order (although that is there, of course), but because people simply want to work together, in peace.Unfortunately, history (and contemporary events) show how easy it is to "short circuit" this innate tendency toward helping/not harming others.

You like the child being smashed with a shovel thing don’t you....Religion breeds hatred of people that share different moral and social codes. Even in modern christianity, church goers are encouraged to hate others that are not apart in their particular 'faith', they just disguise this hatred by praying for them instead. They are quick to forget however that the christians of the past would all too quickly murder, rape and, 'smash children’s faces in with shovels', simply because they were different or worshiped another god (Most probably the same guy (god) but either wearing a dress or having a different name). This same thing is what is causing Alkieda to blow people up, they are not afraid of death because they will go to heaven if they kill the enemies of their god; so they aren’t afraid to strap three tons of centex to their heads and nut anyone that they don’t like!!! Every animal in the whole world fears death, religion defies nature by stating otherwise! When will we realize that we are the only ones in control of our destiny, their is no God(s) looking down on us, it defies all rational thought and instinct! Nuns defile nature because they deny themselves the natural instincts and emotions given to them branding them 'against God'. So why would God give us all these things to indulge and enjoy areselves in if he hated them, does god hate his creations? or were these temptaions placed here by the original rebel, Satan, because if they were, I choose Satan. However, I am not a religious man, the very idea of Satan was concocted by early christians to scare the flock into obeadiance, into conformity, into sperating us from them and breeding hatred. We should not deny our instincts, but follow and indulge in them.
As for morals, just think about this..., three thousand years ago did the miniscule and insignificant people of Earth have the same moral laws that we do.....NO! Does the East share Western moral codes.... NO!! This proves that no one person can say "This is right and this is wrong."As for stating that my statment is trash, you didnt even back up your argument with any evidance, I have. So get used to it becasue we do live in a chaotic world where people are killed each other every day and guess what, RELIGION IS ONE OF THE GREATEST CAUSES OF WAR AND DEATH BECASUE IT SEPERATES US FROM THEM, JUST WHAT HITLER DID WITH THE JEWS...JUST BECASUE THEY WERE DIFFERENT!

If faith is based on things proven and your faith is in God how do you justify God's existance? You claim Jesus commited these acts without confirmation. Just because the Bible says something does not mean it is true. The bible is not proven.

No matter where I go, be it out with my pals, in school, talking to a pastor about the dirtywork or in this case on an internet debate forum, I always run into a Satanist or two. You guys followin' me around or something?But I gotta say your buddies sure were a whole lot nicer than you."church goers are encouraged to hate others that are not apart in their particular 'faith', they just disguise this hatred by praying for them instead"Yes, praying may sound good, but since it's a Christian thing it's gotta be another one of our wicked Jedi Mind Tricks So wishing them well to a diety that you assert does not exist is cruelty? Even if there were no God it wouldn't hurt the person to pray for them, in fact it wouldn't do anything at all. And if you're going to imply we pray to 'kill, kill, kill!' then you are misinformed. I realize that as a Satanist(which, for those of you who don't know, is the opposite of Christianity: Indulgence in animal instinct and worrying about yourself while worshipping/serving nothing. Basically a hippie atheist with a more imposing name)you've probably taken some rough stuff from Christians, and I apologize for them doing stupid things out of ignorance. But not all of us are like that. In fact a friend of mine is Satanist, and she's probably sharper and of a higher moral standard(even if she believes it doesn't exist) than most of my Christian friends.
Anyway, back on topic:"They are quick to forget however that the christians of the past would all too quickly murder, rape and, 'smash children’s faces in with shovels', simply because they were different or worshiped another god "So because Christians did it before we need to do it today!!Look, there have been HORRIFIC acts done in the name of Christianity.
I realize that, but if anything Christians need to work on ensuring that doesn't happen again. Are we doing a good job? Not really I'll admit, but please don't blame us for something people before our time did."(Most probably the same guy (god) but either wearing a dress or having a different name). "Agreed. Who are any of us mortals to say we understand God and nobody else does? But also, you assert very strongly that God doesn't exist, with a passion. Some people have brought up some good criteria against the Bible on this forum, but they're backed by evidence. So far most Evolutionists and Theists on here agree God cannot be proven nor disproven with scientific methods. You seem to think otherwise, why don't you show us that evidence you think we all need to look at?"This same thing is what is causing Alkieda to blow people up, they are not afraid of death because they will go to heaven if they kill the enemies of their god; so they aren’t afraid to strap three tons of centex to their heads and nut anyone that they don’t like!!!"Again, this attack seems to be aimed at the belief itself, but it once again misfired and hit the people who did things that their Holy Scripture never told them to do."Every animal in the whole world fears death, religion defies nature by stating otherwise! When will we realize that we are the only ones in control of our destiny, their is no God(s) looking down on us, it defies all rational thought and instinct!"For one thing that should've ended in a question mark. You seem to want us to realize all this idea you're proposing. Enlighten us with your wisdom. So far you haven't shown us any 'evidence' against the existence of God." Nuns defile nature because they deny themselves the natural instincts and emotions given to them branding them 'against God'. So why would God give us all these things to indulge and enjoy areselves in if he hated them, does god hate his creations?"Defile nature? Turnin' wiccan on me so soon, boy? Okay, FROM NOW ON YOUR NAME IS DANDELION. Those insticts and emotions are great. Sex before marriage is a different topic altogether, but I think the main point is that screwing everybody is a bad idea, save it for someone you really love. With STDs going around I don't see why that's such a bad concept? And with that being said, if God hated us wouldn't he not warn us and tell us to megabang everybody in sight so we could all get AIDS?"As for stating that my statment is trash, you didnt even back up your argument with any evidance, I have."Like what??? If you mean the historical evidence I agree with you, but as for scientific, repeatable evidence etc. I've seen nada zip ziltch from you, Dandelion... in fact, I changed my mind. From now on I refer to you as Dandriff. Everybody else feel free to vote with which I should refer to Dandra. Now, if you're going to say I got too carried away with the jokes, it's because it was a little disturbing when you said:"You like the child being smashed with a shovel thing don't you..."Just thought I'd clarify that, but please don't take offense as it's all in good fun anyway; you can feel free to harp on me.[This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 03-17-2004]

---

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

"So far most Evolutionists and Theists on here agree God cannot be proven nor disproven with scientific methods. You seem to think otherwise, why don't you show us that evidence you think we all need to look at?"See Romans 1:18-32 especially verse 20. The evidence is all around you.

Just remember that what we see as God's world around us isn't the same for atheists. Two different people can see the same thing, yet both be off about what it is.

---

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

See my naked rear end. It's as relevant as the Bible in proving anything. There is no evidence for anything.