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Author Topic:   Morality and God
Peter
Member (Idle past 1508 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 6 of 46 (74663)
12-22-2003 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by shadowdragon
12-20-2003 6:36 AM


Re: Morality and God
I think the question here is relating to whether or
not morality exists objectively, and derives from
God.
Anything could be considered 'right' if it were enacted
in a society where the activity is considered right.
Or
Would it be wrong to act in an 'immoral' way if either:
i) It was not considered immoral in your society (only some-one elses)
or
ii) One had never been taught any moral concepts.
...and how/who is to judge the morality of any one act?

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 Message 5 by shadowdragon, posted 12-20-2003 6:36 AM shadowdragon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Abshalom, posted 01-22-2004 6:40 PM Peter has seen this message but not replied
 Message 13 by :æ:, posted 01-23-2004 12:32 PM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1508 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 16 of 46 (80848)
01-26-2004 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by :æ:
01-23-2004 12:32 PM


Re: Morality and God
quote:
If morality exists objectively, I would think it wouldn't "derive" from anything. Objective things simply are as they are, not subject to the properties of some other entity.
That's not true if the entity is an omnipotent being who created
everything to be the way it is. Perhaps my wording was
incorrect/unclear on that.
All I was trying to do was state the premise as I understand it.
That is, that objective morality exists because the creator
made it so.
quote:
The important phrase being "could be." Yes, anything could be considered right, but in practice it isn't, so that fact is rather irrelevant.
No, it doesn't make it irrelevant. If, in principle, anything
can be considered moral, then morality cannot be objective.
If even one person considers an act to be acceptable that others
do not then there is no objective morality.
The rest of your post actually agrees with my position, that is
all morality is purely subjective.

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 Message 13 by :æ:, posted 01-23-2004 12:32 PM :æ: has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Smitty500, posted 02-03-2004 4:51 PM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1508 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 19 of 46 (82977)
02-04-2004 6:07 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Smitty500
02-03-2004 4:51 PM


Re: Morality and God
Q: Are we perfect?
A: Depends entirely on your criterion for perfection.
Example:
Some of us are perfect for surviving long enough to breed.
Many of us are perfect for drinking lots of alchohol and then
falling over a lot.
Q: Should we be trying to get better?
A: In whose eyes?
Example:
Mr X's father is a mobster, and is very disappointed in Mr X
because, at the age of 37 he has never comitted a major
criminal offense, and has consitently failed to 'rub out'
people who cross him.
To get better, in Mr X snr's eyes, Mr X must knock over a
bank or armoured car, and wack five of his enemies.
quote:
God has not set up the law to condemn but to show the path to heaven(to show the need for Jesus Christs sacrifice.)
God wants your heart right with him, he doesn't care how you live. He wants your heart close to him and when your heart is close to him, then you will read the Word and be subject to a transformation and renewing of your mind. In effect the transforming and renewing of your mind should lead to a higher moral code and a closer relationship with God.
You cannot actually know any of this.
quote:
And by the way loves you whether you want him to or not.
I got nothing against God so long as he's got nothing
against me

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Smitty500, posted 02-03-2004 4:51 PM Smitty500 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Smitty500, posted 02-11-2004 7:35 PM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1508 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 30 of 46 (85705)
02-12-2004 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Smitty500
02-11-2004 7:35 PM


Re: Morality and God
So YOUR criterion for perfection is 'That which
God would consider perfection.'
And your answer to the question is 'Morality is that which
God considers to be good/bad'.
i.e. objective morality exists.
So regardless of what WE deem to be morally acceptable,
there is an overriding set of moral codes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Smitty500, posted 02-11-2004 7:35 PM Smitty500 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Smitty500, posted 02-13-2004 9:33 PM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1508 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 46 of 46 (88093)
02-23-2004 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Smitty500
02-13-2004 9:33 PM


Re: Morality and God
Presumably the only statement of God's morality that
we have is in the Bible.
If this is the case, then we seem to have biblical
contradiction of objective morality, since God
in the OT orders his people to perform acts in his name
which are considered immoral by God in the NT.
That is, God changes his/her/its mind.
If the view of what is and is not moral can change (from God's
PoV) then how can there be objective morality?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Smitty500, posted 02-13-2004 9:33 PM Smitty500 has not replied

  
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