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Author Topic:   Why was a flood needed?
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 13 of 90 (45538)
07-09-2003 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DC85
07-06-2003 1:57 AM


HI DC,
I think that the Flood stories are designed to show YWHW flexing a little divine muscle. There would be no point in just having a single thought that would wipe out everything on Earth that YWHW wanted to, YWHW’s massive ego could not possibly be satisfied by that.
YWHW (at least in the minds of the authors) needs to show the world what he can do, he needs to display his awesome power to the creations who have become too big for their boots (or sandals). It is a bit like a cheap two penny gangster novelette, after a ‘hit’ there’s always someone left to tell the rest of the mob who it was that kicked their butt, I mean there’s no point in showing how strong you are if no one knows it was you that done the deed.
Exactly the same thing happens with the myth of the ten plagues in Egypt. If YWHW really only wanted the Israelites to be set free and settle in the land of Canaan, then we all know that a god would be able to do this with a single thought. But not the YWHW character, he needs to get all puffed up and full of self-importance, so he shows the non-believers exactly what he can do. Not only does YWHW terrorise the population of Egypt, he hardens the Pharaoh’s heart so the Pharaoh cannot agree to Moses demands, even if he wanted to. So why did YWHW harden Pharaoh’s heart? Well to show off again of course.
On a serious note, although the Flood myths in Genesis are not exactly a straight plagiarising of other near eastern myths, they do have general similarities. The most complete and the best-known of the Babylonian sources is of course the Gilgamesh epic. In this story there are some surprising similarities with the Bible accounts:
Divine causality has decided on the flood.
Only one man and his family are to be saved.
A god gives the revelation that there will be a flood.
A god dictates the construction of the ark.
A god dictates that animals are to be brought aboard the ark.
Birds establish the ending of the flood.
The ark comes to rest on a mountain.
A sacrifice that is pleasing to god finishes off the story.
Some people might take these similarities as proof that there was indeed a flood, but if that were the case, why cant the Bible accounts be taken as proof of the validity of the Gilgamesh Epic? The Gilgamesh Epic is after all, far older than any Bible text we have.
I actually really enjoy teaching the Genesis Flood Story in school, the kids love it and they really like colouring in the pictures of the ark and it’s animals. At least it keeps an ancient folk tale alive, it cant be all bad.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DC85, posted 07-06-2003 1:57 AM DC85 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by mike the wiz, posted 07-09-2003 6:14 PM Brian has replied
 Message 16 by Rrhain, posted 07-09-2003 8:52 PM Brian has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 17 of 90 (45591)
07-10-2003 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by mike the wiz
07-09-2003 6:14 PM


HI Mike,
RUBISH. he was showing pharaoh that all his gods were false and not to mess with the real deal.
Yahweh - I AM
Mike, you pretty much agree with me that YHWH was showing off.
since it claims to be true and no one has ever proved otherwise do not refer to it as myth!
Where does it claim to be true?
It has been proven untrue, you just wont accept it.
nice try but i'm afraid i still take it as truth.
You can take it as true if you like, but most 12 year old kids know how silly a stance that is. If a 12 year old child can realise how implausible the flood myths are, why cant you, what is the difference between them and you?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by mike the wiz, posted 07-09-2003 6:14 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by mike the wiz, posted 07-10-2003 9:54 AM Brian has not replied
 Message 19 by mike the wiz, posted 07-10-2003 9:57 AM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 20 of 90 (45613)
07-10-2003 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by mike the wiz
07-10-2003 9:57 AM


then tell me how it is untrue
No thanks Mike, I prefer not to start pounding my head off that particular wall again, I have more meaningful things to do with my time.
If I thought for one second that you would actually take on board anything I said, or even thought that you would try to do some objective critical research, I would be happy to investigate the evidence for the Flood with you. But all that would happen would be that you would rely on the Bible everytime regardless of any external evidence.
i'm pretty sure deep down you have a thought in you that says 'what if this is God's word?'
I'll say one thing for you Mike, you are consistent, this is yet another thing that you are pretty sure about that is incorrect.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by mike the wiz, posted 07-10-2003 9:57 AM mike the wiz has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 23 of 90 (45621)
07-10-2003 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by mike the wiz
07-10-2003 10:34 AM


Hi Mike,
No you do not need a time machine, a flood of the magnitude decribed in the Hebrew Bible would HAVE to leave some evidence. It was supposed to have wiped out every living thing on earth, apart from the ark inhabitants. It would also have destroyed every structure that was around at the time, have you any idea how much water is required to fulfill the Bible claim?
Catastrophes leave evidence Mike, the Flood has left nothing.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by mike the wiz, posted 07-10-2003 10:34 AM mike the wiz has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 86 of 90 (45715)
07-10-2003 9:42 PM


Just as I prophecised
I think that it is me who is the 'prophet just like Moses' !
Check my prophecy at post 20:
No thanks Mike, I prefer not to start pounding my head off that particular wall again, I have more meaningful things to do with my time.
LOL, now you guys can borrow my wall.
Oh and just in case you think I am not a prophet like Moses, from the same post:
If I thought for one second that you would actually take on board anything I said, or even thought that you would try to do some objective critical research, I would be happy to investigate the evidence for the Flood with you. But all that would happen would be that you would rely on the Bible everytime regardless of any external evidence.
I rest my case.
Two out of two prophecies correct, thats two more than Jesus managed!
Brian.

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Asgara, posted 07-10-2003 10:02 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 88 of 90 (45718)
07-10-2003 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Asgara
07-10-2003 10:02 PM


Re: Just as I prophecised
The chances of you winning the Lottery this week are about the same as Jesus finally starting his comeback tour!
Sorry to disappoint but I can only say what I see

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Asgara, posted 07-10-2003 10:02 PM Asgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Asgara, posted 07-10-2003 10:39 PM Brian has not replied

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