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Author Topic:   Proofs of God
Peter
Member (Idle past 1509 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 26 of 131 (33344)
02-27-2003 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by bambooguy
02-26-2003 1:44 AM


quote:
But this is very contrary to what we see in nature. When two animals 'disagree' the strongest always 'proves' his
point through strength. There is no discussion of fairness or right and wrong, it's "I get this rotting corpse
because I've beat you up before and I'll do it again if you don't back off. Grrrr."
And what is even more astounding is that all cultures have similar rules of fair play. They may differ on specifics,
Judaism requires monogamy while Islam allows polygamy, but they agree on the basics, i.e. you can't have any
woman you want. And the similarity doesn't end here, they all prohibit murder, theft, dishonesty, and many other
similar vices that contradict the law of the jungle, might makes right.
Take a trip to Cannock in the UK on a saturday night and
I think you will radically change your mind on this issue!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by bambooguy, posted 02-26-2003 1:44 AM bambooguy has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1509 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 40 of 131 (33528)
03-03-2003 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by bambooguy
02-26-2003 1:44 AM


quote:
Have you ever seen two people quarreling? They say things like, "How'd you like it if anyone did the same to you?" or "That's my seat, I was there first" or "Give me some of your orange, I gave you
some of mine--Come on, you promised!"
Now what is useful about this illustration, is that the man making these statements is not appealing
to his own displeasure at having lost his seat. He is appealing to an external standard of conduct,
that the other fellow should know about. But it gets even stranger.
The other fellow doesn't say, "To h--- with your standard!" Usually, he tries to explain why what he
is doing does not really go against the standard. Or that if it does there is some special excuse. He
pretends there is a special reason why the other person who got up can't claim the chair anymore.
Or that the promised bit of orange shouldn't really count, because it was under extenuating
circumstances (if he's a verbose chap!).
I replied previoulsy, and somewhat flippantly, but the point I
think needs to be raised is that the above view of human conduct
is intensely niave.
One can only assume that the poster has led a somewhat sheltered
life.
In an argument over a seat, for example, it is unlikely that
the usurper would raise an objection based upon some standard
of behaviour ... more likely the reply would be something
uprintable. Where I come from we sometimes use the joking
euphemism 'Go forth and multiply' (if you see what I mean).
The behaviour of even supposedly civilised, westerners can be
extremely base ... suggesting that morality is externally imposed
by society rather than anything inherent in the human animal.
Morality stems from the need to control the masses, nothing more.
Moses brought down the ten commandments because he had an unruly
mob of ex-slaves to control ... and as an Egyptian educated
individual he would likely have known a lot about political
and religious manipulations. Church imposed moral notions
most likely have similar intent.

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Peter
Member (Idle past 1509 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 79 of 131 (34163)
03-12-2003 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by bambooguy
03-11-2003 10:39 PM


I don't think there is a meta-physical connection involved
with morality or conscience.
There are mental disorders which impair or remove conscience
from the individual (sociopaths for example have no conscience).
There are likewise reports of people who act in an amoral manner.
That is, they do not even consider their actions in terms
of right or wrong (that would be a legal defintion of insanity
nowadays though).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by bambooguy, posted 03-11-2003 10:39 PM bambooguy has not replied

  
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