soul of fundamentalism

Man! Between you, Prophex, and Jar, I am kept scrambling to think about what I believe and why! Thats what I like about this forum, however! Never a DULL moment. It had been awhile since i had heard of existentialism. I scrambled for a minute to look it up and get a handle on it. Basically, I went to this webpage:
Existential Primer: Definitions
I'll have more to say in a few, as soon as I read a bit and form an answer/opinion...but for now I just want to watch jar and you discuss it.

There is a reason that some of us take the Bible literally. If you take it as just another tale of the many tales and fables written by man, you have effectively reduced Christianity from a spiritual impartation to a mere human philosophy. Christianity is more than just a set of "good morals" for people to adapt, such as philosophy would suggest. A literalist would see a verse such as the first part of Ephesians thusly:
Eph 1:1-14= Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus: In other words, Paul, writing as an apostle by the will of God..to the people of THAT day but also to US..who also are the faithful in Christ Jesus. In other words, if you are not seeking to know Christ in faith, none of this will make any sense to you at this moment.
2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed usin the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. Who is "us"? Remember John 3:16? Us=whosoever believes.4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will- How many of us did He choose? "Whosoever" means whoever chooses Him. There is no set number. All that we know is that many are called, few chosen. Who is chosen? Whomever chooses is already chosen. Is it possible to not choose Him? Sure, but why would anyone do that??
6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace
8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.
9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment-to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory. In other words, Whosoever believes is saved by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Sealed. Notice that it says "you were included when you heard and believed." Keep looking at other writings, Chris but remember that studying the human philosophies of how people behave is not the same as studying the interaction between God and humanity and the action of belief as it applies to the future. Not ALL literalists are hucksters and con artists. We just believe in impartation rather than education as the method of attaining wisdom. Education is a valuable thing as well.

If the letter was only addressed to Ephesus, none of the Bible would be written to us...today. Why would a faithful in Christ then not be as a faithful in Christ now? Besides that, how else can you explain John 3:16 "whosoever" if that does not include everyone since 33 A.D.?This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-13-2005 11:14 PM

Well, you know that I belong to a dispensationalist church. I don't know if you are familiar with that belief, but basically they also believe that while most of the Bible is written for us, not all of it is addressed to us. They differentiate between the Gospel of the Kingdom which was preached even by the twelve and Jesus, versus the Gospel of the Mystery which was and is addressed to the Body of Christ and was preached by Paul. This presupposes that you believe in the possibility of a Rapture.I am intrigued by your findings, but be advised that I shall never consider Christianity to be mere philosophy of do-good teachings.
The theology is addressed to a world of non religious folk who need only to accept Jesus and accept His grace given to us as a means of salvation. Israel had to be concluded in unbelief in order to usher in the age of grace. Peter was taught to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom, as were the original twelve. Only after Israel chose unbelief rather than acceptance of the messiah did the revelation pass via the Holy Spirit to Paul, who then became the Apostle to the Gentiles.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-14-2005 03:58 AM

OK. But if you read other books with which to challenge and contrast with the Bible, how can you be sure that you are able to form a literalist view, given that the other books are not inspired?Either:
No books including the Bible are in any way inspired, in which case human wisdom is proven to be the source of wisdom.OR:The debate is never solved because human wisdom and the many interpretations of history, archeology, sociology and the purpose of the Bible go directly at odds with the literal Spirit of God manifest through the Bible and/or some of its interpreters. This sums up the contrast! Does man write and create truth through expression of human ideas or does God show man in all his sinfulness and inability to become perfect...grappling with the absolute truth of a Creator?This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-21-2005 08:34 AM

Mostly. We as Christians have always used the Bible to verify our understanding and perception of the character of God. The Bible can be an anchor that keeps us from losing our bearings...or it can be a ball and chain that keeps us mired in the mud of absolutist dogma and the stifling of our God ordained creativity!I may be waffling a bit, here. Stimulates the conversation, you know?

Well, the book says not to do that, so no.The question is this: What is/was the original meaning, intent, and expected target audience?

Ordinarily, yes. If both communications become public, however, the question would be whether the letter was intended to be used for public edification or whether it was to be addressed and understood in a limited and private context.Are you suggesting that Pauls letters from jail were never intended by the author to become a widely published book?
And then there is the question of who the author really is."Who wrote that?"
"Christ in me."
Yeah? Tell it to the judge!

But if we had no Bible, how would we know that God had a Son? How would we know that this Son is coming back? How would we know that we need to be watchful of the spiritual war within and around us?These things are important.

And as such, we have a saying: Its not about religion. Its about relationship.Even if I had never heard about Jesus or about the greatest commandment, I would somehow have been drawn by God unto Himself.
I just know that I would! He would then impart into me His love with which to love my neighbor as myself.Right?When I go to the detention center, I often do not study my Bible before I talk to the youth. I just pray that God goes before me and that I look at each and every one of them as God would look at them.
Those kids don't need Bible learning. They need a relationship.

Here wego again! Call it imaginary if you wish, but it is very much a relationship. Only if it is established that ALL truth claims that are non verifiable by scientific method are relativistic. The scientific method is perhaps the only way to establish concrete evidence but we are not talking science...we are talking faith and belief. Kinda reminds me of that line in Scarface..Say Hello to my little friend!..Except I proclaim to you and to all who will listen, Say Hello to my friend who created you...the rock that you are standing on spinning through space...Who knows you better than you know yourself! He knows your heart and your motives...and He knows that you think Him imaginary...so for now He waits patiently while you live out your life doing your best! Many think that god and religion were products of the imagination of man. Others, such as myself, believe that man was another product of Gods creative imagination!

It would be reasonable for you perhaps, but some would say that you were an idolator! Worshipping and serving the creature rather than the Creator! Shame on you!