Jesus and evil

Well, have you considered that it was not anything to do with how horrible the death was, that relates to forgivness of sins?Christianity is not an accounting table. It's not weighing Christ's suffering on one scale and the sins of the world on the other. It is not a balancing act. Instead, it is a gift freely given.As to Evil and Satan, I will atleast try to show you how I see the difference.Hitler was Evil, but as you pointed out in the OP, it was a very normal human evil, even if on a grand scale. It was not a sign of Satan's influence. Just pure meanness.On the other hand, Ron Wyatt, Ken Hovind, Jerry Falwell, Gene Scott, Jim Bakker, Pat Robertson and such are IMHO definite signs of the influence and existence of Satan. The EVIL here is that Satan gets people to ignore GOD's word, to pervert the Bible, to hate others and inflame those very human insticts for doing evil. I do not see anyway you can account for the perversions of people like the above without the direct influence of Satan.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm old and very forgetful so if I'm repeating myself, then forgive me. I believe we must look at this from the perceptions and environment of the good folk two thousand years ago. A large part of the Christian message revolves around the resurection. No death, no resurection. But why a violent death? Well, in the society of two thousand years ago, the concept of sacrifice was very real. People were punished for their sins. Death as a punishment for what we might see as trivial offenses or even simple disagreement were the norm.The story then is of someone who commits a major, perhaps in the eyes of many the most major sin, attacking the existing religous system. Jesus attacks directly the existing priestly structure. He said "Wait, you can have a direct relationship with GOD and are not limited to living under the rule of some priestly hierarchy". The system sanctioned him forcefully, by killing him. Three days later he rose again and proved them wrong.The violence was related to the system. It did not disappear then, and has not gone away even today. The violence was not the message, but only a symptom of the problem.I do not believe that the violence was of GOD's hand, nor do I believe GOD causes suffering or violence.On to my second point, the reason I selected those particular people (and I agree that Jim Jones and Vernon Howell{aka David Koresh} are also great examples) is their charisma. Satan cannot be effective if he appears bad or evil. And these people have all of the characteristics one associates with EVIL. They look fair and act foul. In them, Satan is at his strongest. He works through them to blind the followers. Satan is very good at what he does. He is persusive, a tempter and beyond the strength of many to resist.IMHO, Satan does not simply want to kill, hurt or maim individuals physically, though I'm sure he takes pleasure in that as well, but rather to pervert the teachings of religion. You can see that directly in Gene Scott's rantings as reflected in the thread "What GOD thinks of Fundamentalists".

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I am not a literalist. I believe that much of the Bible was self-serving attempts by the leaders to secure their status and about as reliable as campaign speeches today. In addition, ALL of the Bible was written within the knowledge base and perceptions of the time. Many things that we now understand were mysteries back then and so attributed to the supernatural. Lightning, earthquakes, desease, misfortune, plagues, weather, and yes, evil and good were all assigned to the supernatural.IMHO, there are two possibilities. Read the Bible with the knowledge and wisdom GOD has given us all, including what we have learned through the scientific method over the last 200 years or so; and read the record that he left us directly, the universe that we live in. Neither of those support the concept that GOD created evil.But please also understand, I am not suggesting that you should believe in GOD or Jesus. Your beliefs are your own. I can only try to explain my belief system and freely admit that it is but a personal relationship between a couple friends, me and GOD.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I've said before, acknowledging Jesus is not a get out of jail card.There are two commandments, love GOD and love others as you love yourself.Loving god is best covered in a quotation from Matthew I've used here in the past. Using that as a guide, I say it is very unlikely that the person you describe would recieve much sympathy from GOD, regardless of professions of faith. But it would be a judgement. His actions before and after conversion would be weighed. How GOD would decide or WHAT GOD would decide, I don't know.edited to add requisite spelling errors.This message has been edited by jar, 09-06-2004 11:22 AM

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

There are many that profess to be Christians that believe that. They usually base their convictions on acts of forgiveness by Jesus, the "Go and sin no more" syndrome. And for most of the examples given in the Bible, I would agree with what Jesus did. For example, a prostitute approaches Jesus and is forgiven. Yup. Jesus was a reasonable, rational individual and the custom of the time of stoning such a transgressor was silly and totally out of proportion.Of course he forgave her and I bet he even winked when he told her to sin no more. He might even have gotten her phone number at the time.Christianity, as taught by Jesus, is a religion of love. It really is as simple as that.Love GOD, love others as you love yourself.Do not forget the last part. Love yourself.It doesn't say profess, it deals with actions. Just do it. You don't have to profess, you don't have to testify, you don't have to evangelize. Just do it.It is inclusive. It covers the atheist, the agnostic, the muslim, the jew, the hindu, the buddhist, the baptist, the presbyterian, the catholic, the lutheran, the satanist, the episcopalian, the methodist, everybody. If they live the life, if they do unto others as they would have others do unto them, they are in.Just do it.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Because GOD, when Christ, was human with all the limitations and weaknesses of humankind. That does not mean he is not GOD.But when you run down these offshoots trying to nitpick, is there really a purpose?Christians believe in a unity of the trinity. It is beyond reason, and article of faith.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion