Abshalom responds to me:
quote:
Do you assume that YHWH is a god that always rewards "hard labor in bad working conditions," "successful alchemy," or "financial success in the face of adversity" in favor of "holding YHVH above all other gods," "treating others with the respect you expect for yourself," or "obedience to the Law?"
Irrelevant. You asked why god would consider Cain's sacrifice a good thing. I gave you a justification.
And you haven't shown how becoming a successful horticulturist contradicts holding god above all other gods, treating others with the respect you expect for yourself, or obedience to the Law. After all, "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food," so it would seem that god does have some sort of connection to plants. In fact, man was created to till the ground, "And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground." So wouldn't becoming a farmer be right up there with god's plan for humanity?
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Do you deny that within the first four chapters of the Bible that 1) the very soil of the Earth was damned on account of Adam's and Eve's transgressions; 2) That the primary punishment for their transgressions was eviction from paradise and eternal struggle to draw a livelihood from between the thorns and the thistles as tillers of the soil; and 3) That Cain drew the lesser straw as a worker of the soil?
No, no, and yes. The first two do not lead to the final one. There is no justification to the claim that Cain's sacrifice was refused because it was of "cursed origins." Oh, we know that god didn't like Cain's sacrifice, but we have no idea why.
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With regard to the "fat parts" meaning the "best parts," this is not necessarily substantiated throughout the entire body of scriptural work
Yes, it is. The specific word used is rooted in "cheleb" which has overtones of the choicest, best parts. It's used 92 times in the Bible. Take this one:
Psalms 81:16: He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat: and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee.
The word translated as "finest" is "mekhelev," from "cheleb," meaning "fat" or "best part."
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and with regard to the "firstlings" representing "Grade A Prime," again this is far from substantiated throughout the Bible.
You're being naive. The word used is directly translated to be firstborn, right of the firstborn, etc., but what do you think that means? What implications are set by it? Why do you think Jacob stole Esau's birthright?
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In fact, the "perfect" condition of an animal with regard to "lack of defect" is far more important that the order of its birth.
But it doesn't say the lamb was without defect. It says it was the firstling. That makes it better. It has the right of the firstborn. It's what Jacob steals from Esau.
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With regard to "Abel's offering being accepted and Cain's not ... and that is all we know of it ..." how does that jibe with an omniscient god?
Perfectly. I'm certain god knows why Cain's sacrifice was rejected, but god doesn't deign to let us know what the reason was. Are you god? Were you there? Is there some verse in the Bible that says what the reason was? How does god's knowledge of why Cain's sacrifice was rejected mean that we know what that reason was?
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Do you think for a moment that what is narrated regarding YHVH's acceptance of one gift over the other has absolutely nothing to do with the very next series of verses wherein "Kayin became exceedingly upsed and his face fell" and YHVH's subsequent admonishment "why has your face fallen? Is it not thus: that if you intend good, you should bear it aloft?"
Not at all! Cain's countenance has fallen because his sacrifice got rejected, but we don't know why. Cain might know why, but the narrative doesn't tell us. And Cain's reaction is understandable...he did his best and got shot down. That's a bit depressing. God tries to buck him up, but he does exactly what god warns against: Wallows in self-pity and leads himself down the path of sin.
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With regard to it being a waste to throw the rest of the carcass away after using the skins for clothing, that was exactly my point to begin with ... if the purpose was to raise sheep for clothing, a Creator god would certainly provide for the economic and full use of the remainder of the animal.
Then we agree on the claim that humans didn't start eating meat until after the flood is not justified.
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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!
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