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Author | Topic: The Bible is literally true, but each detail is not. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
the story of a worldwide flood is not unique to the bible... there are hundreds of very similar stories told by different nations around the world
almost every nation and religion on earth teach it to some degree i agree with you that some things in the bible are not literal but figurative... but i dont think the flood is one of them
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
[quote"Brian"]I see this claim a lot on the Net, yet it is never supported. So, perhaps you can point us to a few stories from around the world that are 'very similar' to the Bible version.[/quote]
Hi Brian, In the book Myths of Creation, Philip Freund estimates that over 500 Flood legends are told by more than 250 tribes and peoples. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Vol. 2, p. 319) states: “Flood stories have been discovered among nearly all nations and tribes. Though most common on the Asian mainland and the islands immediately south of it and on the North American continent, they have been found on all the continents. Totals of the number of stories known run as high as about 270 . the Maya in Mexico and Central America had their Flood legend that involved a universal deluge, or haiyococab, which means “water over the earth.” the Incas had their Flood legends. British writer Harold Osborne states: “Perhaps the most ubiquitous features in South American myth are the stories of a deluge Aztec mythology spoke of four previous ages, during the first of which the earth was inhabited by giants. (That is another reminder of the Nephilim, the giants referred to in the Bible at Genesis 6:4.) It included a primeval flood legend in which “the waters above merge with those below, obliterating the horizons and making of everything a timeless cosmic ocean.” The book China”A History in Art tells us that one of the ancient rulers of China was Y, “the conqueror of the Great Flood. Y channeled flood waters into rivers and seas to resettle his people.” Mythology expert Joseph Campbell wrote about the Chinese “Period of the Great Ten,” saying: “To this important age, which terminates in a Deluge even the Australian Aboriginals have flood legends in their 'dreamtime mythology'
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Taz wrote: "How come major ancient cultures like the Greek, Chinese, Mongolian, etc. never had a "world wide" flood myth?"
its notable that the Greeks have myths and legends that resemble the Genesis account of 'pre-flood' conditions. the time when giants and gods walked the earth. the chinese have legends of their emperor Yu who was said to conquer the great flood and save his people... the mongols dont have a flood legend that resembles the bible. The mongols leader was a shaman and their stories and practices vary from place to place and from shaman to shaman i do appreciate what you saying though, the legends themselves do not necessarily equate to proof of a flood. Edited by Peg, : error fixed
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Cyote wrote: "and there is a mountain of evidence that shows no such flood happened at that time (in fact, there is no evidence for a worldwide flood at any time).
Creationists refuse to accept the scientific evidence and cling to any hint of support for such a flood. These worldwide flood myths are a classic example. hi coyote, when you say there is no evidence for a world wide flood, how does science explain the remains of mammoths and rhinoceroses in different parts of the earth, Some of these were found in Siberian cliffs; others were preserved in Siberian and Alaskan ice. In fact, some were found with food undigested in their stomachs or still unchewed in their teeth, indicating that they died suddenly. And then there is the fossil remains of many other animals, such as lions, tigers, bears, and elk, have been found in common strata, which may indicate that all of these were destroyed simultaneously. some would view this as possible evidence
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
bluescat48 wrote:"That fact they are found in common strata simply means that they lived in the same areas. There are many ways that an animal could die with food in its mouth."
i think what it shows is that there is a lot about our world that we just dont know...for me, the question is..."is a global flood plausible" and i have to say that it certainly is a plausible explanation for some of the phenomena that we see today water has been everywhere...even in the middle of the desert regions of Australia...sea shells cover millions of hectares of land out there im not trying to say that it is evidence of the biblical flood, but i cant say that its definitely NOT evidence for it... it gives the bible flood plausibility
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
cheers coyote, i agree that the animal finds themselves do not prove a global flood and yes it could just be circumstantial that living creatures were quick frozen
I guess if im asking if its plausible that the earth could have been covered in water, then i would have to say that evidence says its plausible “there is ten times as much water by volume in the ocean as there is land above sea level. Dump all this land evenly into the sea, and water would cover the entire earth, one and one-half miles deep.” (National Geographic, January 1945, p. 105) we dont know what the structure of earth was several thousands of years ago, so if it was flatter then it is today, then i would have to again say its plausible.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
the mammoths in siberia that have been found with grass still in their mouths and undigested in their guts
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
there are a number of related sites you can view, here is one with pictures
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.geocities.com/stegob/mammoth.htmlor... info on the Berezovka mammoth found in 1901 with grass in its mouth No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-03/953730757.Sh.r.html Edited by Peg, : another url added
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
DrJones wrote: "How is this evidence that they were frozen alive instead of dying shortly after eating and then being frozen?"
well firstly, if an animal is in distress, it does not eat2ndly, if an animal is sick, it does not eat so the fact that these huge animals were found with undigested food in their guts and grass still in their mouths, indicates that they died very suddenly also interestingly, in the United States, England, France, southern Spain, Germany, Russia and elsewhere huge fissures in the earth have been found filled with the remains of large numbers of animals. They include mixtures of bones of the elephant, rhinoceros, hippopotamus, reindeer, horse, hog, bear, and many others. One such cavern near Palermo, Sicily, yielded more than twenty tons of bonesthe fissures are located on isolated hills at considerable height With regard to the variety of animal remains found in one bone cave, the book Earth’s Most Challenging Mysteries asks: “What made rabbits run into the same cave as coyotes? And an antelope with a wolverine and a grizzly? Bones of the mastodon were found, also a few reptiles ... The whole mass of bones was covered and preserved by a flood deposit of gravel and rocks.” i keep hearing people say there is no evidence for the great flood, but i keep finding it there is also geological evidence as well.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
you may be right, but im sure you'd agree there are a lot of strange phenomena to be found
such as large masses of granite and hard metamorphic rock being traced to Scandinavia, yet scattered over the plains of Denmark and northern Germany. The same has been seen in America and eastern and western Canada, and elsewhere. ... sometimes even the elevation they are found on is much higher than their source.
The Ice Age and Its Work I. Erratic Blocks and Ice-Sheets, by Alfred Russel Wallace it seems like a the earth has a lot of explaining to do if a flood wasnt the cause ... again though, this evidence makes the flood plausible Edited by Peg, : insert coyote wrote at outset
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Oh i dont know...im trying use the quote box, but its not working for me
above post was reply to Coyote who wrote: "There really is no convincing evidence for a global flood, and you are grasping at straws with your "plausibility" ideas"
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
@bluegenes: you make a good point and i'll take it on board
im not going to demand that this animal died in the flood because i dont think anyone can prove that... i will however remain convinced that something happened in the past that affected a lot of animals instantly this particular mammoth may have fallen into a ditch and been covered over by falling dirt, or it may have drowned in the ditch. I dont think even those who found it can really know for sure however, grass and undigested food indicates sudden destruction hence a sudden flood is plausible
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
bluegenes writes: peek great thanks for the tip
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Brian writes: Logically, if the biblical flood were true, then shouldn't there be only one flood story the world over? We are told that the only human survivors were the inhabitants of the ark, thus all other cultures were terminated. Therefore, if the biblical flood is true then there shouldn't be all these vastly different tales in existence. Hi Brian,i know what your saying, and sure, you'd like to think that they would all be exactly that same, but if you consider that the story was passed down from generation to generation by word of mouth and add to that the influence of the religion that they practiced, then its understandable why there are variances but what we can be sure of is that on all six continents of the earth, the story of a great deluge and a small group of survivors can be found. an interesting fact is the chinese word for ship is made up of 3 characters: Vessel + Eight + Mouths
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
coyote writes: The mtDNA from that individual/lineage was found in living individuals spread along the Pacific coast from California to the tip of South America. There was no break at the approximate date of the flood, 4,350 years ago, with replacement by mtDNA associated with Noah's female kin. hi coyote, im no expert on dna and havnt looked into it myself so i cant really comment on the bones found i do however have doubts about the carbon dating process and believe that it may not be accurate first it has to be assumed that the level of carbon 14 in the atmosphere has always been the same as it is now. Cosmic rays vary greatly in intensity at times, being largely affected by changes in the earth’s magnetic field. Magnetic storms on the sun sometimes increase the cosmic rays, the earth’s magnetic field has been both stronger and weaker in past millenniums, and since the explosion of nuclear bombs, the worldwide level of carbon 14 has increased substantially.
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