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Author | Topic: The Bible is literally true, but each detail is not. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4257 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
i cant go that far. the Isrealites wrote much of it in a continueing history as they went. they were a literate people with thier own language, while i belive much of it is myth, it is still some of the best documented data that has survived that we have from back then.
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yomommahey Junior Member (Idle past 5769 days) Posts: 2 From: Temecula, Cali, USA Joined: |
no, just give it up, the bible overall makes no sense, thats the truth. becus i know from reading history, thats not what the people meant when they saw the flood, they thought it covered the whole earth no lie.
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gregrjones Junior Member (Idle past 5683 days) Posts: 4 From: kettering, ohio, u.s.a. Joined: |
This is not a new theory, but it doesn't seem to be well known among many people (Christians or non).
Its called the dynamic inspiration. Dynamic inspiration says that the Word of God was revealed to men throughout history. Those men wrote down their experiences/observations in their own words in the scriptures, just like you or I would write down something. The alternative view is called the plenary view. It says that the Bible itself is the Word of God and therefore every word has to be inerrant. I'm a Christian who believes in the dynamic view. What's fascinating to me about the dynamic view is that if one just takes the Bible and reads it from a historian's perspective, one can't explain its claims away. For example, you have four writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke & John who all write about Jesus's life ministry. They all agree that He performed miracles, even resurrected from the dead. They agree on the essentials of His teachings, they just differ on details that are inconsequential (details like whether or not Jesus told the Disciples to take money bag and cloaks with them when they went out two by two). This (along with the witness of the other books of the New Testament) is enough for the object observer to NOT be able to conclude that the Bible is a product of a grand conspiracy. After all, the writer's gained neither power or money from their claims. In fact they were mostly martyred. And one can't claim that the author's were delusional because delusions don't hit collectively and in sync with one another to such a degree of specificity. The burden of proof, as I see it, is for a nonbeliever to try and explain away the text. What was the motive of the writers? Why DOES the Bible exist? I've never heard a nonbeliever give a credible alternative. The best that I've heard is that the church (which didn't even come into power until Constantine) wrote it as a justification for their power. But if that was the case, given that this church was what we would call Catholic, why was one central hallmark of the Protestant reformation the fact that this church would seemingly discourage your average lay person from even reading the Bible? This Divine inspiration thing is a distracting red herring. Believing it to be the words of men is enough for me to believe in Christ and His teachings. And yes, I believe in the Word of God. But I believe that when the Bible speaks of the Word of God (ex: Psalm 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet") it is not talking about the scriptures, but rather God's word as He has revealed it to men. We can SEE this in the scriptures but that's different than them BEING the Word of God. I can even see this idea in the words of Jesus. Notice in the Gospels, that He will often say, "Did not Moses write?" Why wouldn't He instead say, "Didn't God say?" if He held to the plenary view. BTW, for more information on dynamic vs. plenary inspiration, check out this link: Error 404 - Not Found Edited by gregrjones, : No reason given. Edited by gregrjones, : No reason given.
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!_!  Suspended Member (Idle past 5652 days) Posts: 6 Joined: |
http://www.rsdnation.com/showthread.php?t=32043 alright; this movie and other partial-to-total lies claims that the word of the creator is **** **************************************************example of cannabis in the sealed word of god: chances exceeding 1 in 6.5 x 10E420 exodus2006.com is for sale | HugeDomains mathematical patterning in word of god: Bible Code Digest.com - Home Page [Bible Code Digest] exodus2006.com is for sale | HugeDomains Codes in the Bible HugeDomains.com ************************************************** *things like one woman to one man instead of the law which is multiple women to one man as allowable, thus to fire it: http://www.biblepolygamy.com here is the burial of jesus christ in the cloth put and raised in: WordPress.com Shroud of Turin Blog the original gospel (good news) was written from the aramaic; lies include: the bible is bs; the bible didn't happen; the bible is a storybook to be read in a monastery noah's ark: The domain name 666soon.com is for sale "there were giants in those days and also after" (genesis) photo of an antedeluvian giant: http://www.returnofthenephilim.com/...AntediluvianGiant.html ************************************************* the original aramaic gospel in english downloadable and mathematic Lulu Logo was the new testament really written in greek contains split/semi-split words Loading... *************************************************Illuminati Formula to Create a Totally Undetectable Mind Control Slave The Illuminati Formula to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Control Slave: Table of Contents UnknownProphet.com is available at DomainMarket.com. Call 888-694-6735 has a vision regarding california retranslations include: "for ever and ever" = "for age and age" "aeon and aeon"; MTY 11:12 breaking forth, and those breaking forth seize hold of it;LK 14:26 "to hate", "to put aside", "to have aversion against"; pronounce of yhwh as yehowah; 11 rev arc of covenant; 11 daniel ethiopia/ns and libya/ns with anti-messiah; a "day" not only as a 1000 years as definite neither as a 24 hour day as definitel; sheol/hades/hell as a pit/storage and gehenna/fire place as what ppl call and biased spit as "hell" *************************************************9daniel in ad2004.com is about the meshikha not the anti-meshikha and the lion of the "end of days" is unecessarily j christ (of judah) /is not armageddon:http://ad2004.com/Biblecodes/Hebrewmatrix/endofdays.pdf ************************************************* lastly: "He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man (adam) in the day when they were created." GEN 1 in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth, and the earth became laid waste; as opposed to "was formless" " "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, be fruitful andmultiply, and *replenish the earth... The word used here is (Strong's ref. 2318 chadash, khaw - dash; a prim. root; to be new, to rebuild, repair, renew" " "Fallacies: seraphim as flying sauces/discsyeremiah's vision as "pre-adamic" as opposed to day of the lord mryh-yhwh sending negative ets against humanity as opposed to watchers on day of the lord" " "Behold, HE (antichrist?) shall come up as CLOUDS, and his chariotsshall be as a WHIRLWIND (Joel 2?): his horses swifter than EAGLES (UFO's?). Woe unto us! for we are spoiled. Make ye mention to the NATIONS; behold, publish against JERUSALEM that W A T C H E R S COME FROM A FAR COUNTRY, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah. " " he; yhwh eagles; chariots "like a hurricane" " "The vision which Esias son of Amos saw against Babylon. Lift up astandard on the mountain of the plain, exalt the voice to them, beckon with the hand, open the gates, ye ruler. I give command and I bring them: N E P H I L L I M are coming to fulfil MY WRATH, rejoicing at the same time and insulting " " day of the lord; translation of/out of septuagint "nephilim" fallacy positive seraphim/fiery ones/serpent ones noted in Isaiah 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5npGRK6L6Eg ophanin is the wheel not seraphim ************************************************** ***__________________ RESURRECT-OPEN RE: Zeitgeist 2: Addendum "words of Genesis 1:2 'and the earth was (became) formless and void'The next sentence, 'and the earth was formless and void', is in error in most English translations. It should read, 'and the earth became formless and void.' The Hebrew word translated 'was formless' in English versions of the Bible is 'toh-ho' a verb which means, 'to lay waste'. " http://godandscience.org/youngearth/longdays.html ************************************************** **is not armageddon: http://ad2004.com/Biblecodes/Hebrewmatrix/endofdays.pdf 9 Daniel: meshikha cut off on 70th 7year"on the wings of abomination it shall be made desolate" http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/70weeks.htmhttp://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/chart_seventy.htm (70 weeks is over) ************************************************** *** 12 Revelation woman bride mother zion and I heard an eagle flying in the heaven (8rev) two wings of a great eagle were given to the woman (12rev) ************************************************** *** 5th seal 11 revelation 12 revelation 13 revelation 144k slain furtherwitnesses slain third woewoe to the earth and sea, for the devil, who has great fury has descended to them, as he knows that he has little time (12rev) "a great fiery dragon"http://www.planetxforecast.com http://www.librarising.com/cosmology/planetx-kolbrin.pdf great fiery dragon is the destroyer is false a bible is a set of volumes 'Mayan Elder, Hunbatz Men, also revealed that the Mayans have known aboutTzoltze ek' (Nibiru) for many years. They say 'The planet has a period of 6,500 years, not 3,600, and visits us 4 times every 26,000 year precessional cycle' (the Great Calendar of the Pleiades that ends on 21st December 2012). ************************************************** **** "The Biblical phenomenon:"Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman (the harlot Babylon) sits." Rev. 17:9 KJV, NKV Is this clue referring to the 'seven hills of Rome'? I don't think so.If we take this literally and look for mountains, we can actually find one geographic area in the world where exactly seven mountain ranges converge - in a remote spot in northeastern Pennsylvania, USA! A map drawn in 1872 gives this area a name, one which may be surprisinglyprophetic. The name? The World's End." ************************************************** *** http://www.aramaicnt.comhttp://www.aramaicnt.com/Erratta.doc Lulu Logo canonical: torah joshua judges samuelkings isaiah jeremiah ezekiel hosea joel amos obadiah micah nahum habakuk haggai zechariah malachi psalms proverbs job song of solomon ruth lamentations ecclesiastes ester daniel ezra nehemiah chronicles mty mark luke john acts of the apostles james peter john jude paulus revelation "you shall be with me in paradise" abraham's bosom,sheol, heart of the earth/world; as opposed to heaven 25 december of egyptian horus; birth of christ in sept octraised on a saturday; as opposed to easter-ishtar of babelon YHWH:http://becomingone.org/gp/gp1b.htm http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html http://www.xanga.com/item.aspx?user=PronouncingTheName&ta... Edited by AdminModulous, : Hidden spam
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ramoss Member (Idle past 640 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
There is a very easy reason for the synoptic gospels. Mark wrote down a story using the Homeric tradition, and Matthew and Luke copied from Mark and some oral traditions (or the mysterious Q). Matthew and Luke did not copy from each other, which is why their nativity stories are mutually exclusive, as well as their geologies.
John is another beast all together. The GOJ was redacted on at least 4 times. It was called a gnostic work by one church father, and called an anti-gnostic work by another. It isn't a 'grand conspiracy'.. it is just a developing tradition where one author copies another, then having the filtering process ofa central authority go through them, and change them for 'theological correctness'.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3023 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
You are missing the main point of what the Bible is all about and the message it conveys.
The Bible is God's love letter to mankind revealing how God has chosen to redeem sinner man from his sin and bring sinner man into right relationship with God. In all matters dealing with God's salvation for sinner man through the Lord Jesus Christ, the Bible is true. In all matters dealing with the jots and tittles of the Bible, there can be liberty to believe otherwise.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4957 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
the story of a worldwide flood is not unique to the bible... there are hundreds of very similar stories told by different nations around the world
almost every nation and religion on earth teach it to some degree i agree with you that some things in the bible are not literal but figurative... but i dont think the flood is one of them
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Brian Member (Idle past 4987 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
there are hundreds of very similar stories told by different nations around the world. I see this claim a lot on the Net, yet it is never supported. So, perhaps you can point us to a few stories from around the world that are 'very similar' to the Bible version. I my experience, the flood stories from around the world differ greatly from each other, and especially the two flood myths in the Bible. Look at some of the Phillipino flood myths, they are nothing like Noah's adventure. Then, of course, there are many nations who do not have a flood myth. Finally, we have the archaeological record that falsifies the biblical flood. A worldwide flood as described in the Bible has been demonstrated to be untrue by every investigative discipline that we have.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3319 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
It is only a matter of time before someone makes the claim that you just made. I've heard this many many many many times before.
Let us start with this.
Peg writes:
Can you provide some kind of reference(s) for this claim? While it is true that there are various "world wide" flood myths found in various cultures around the world, they are only a hand full, NOT hundreds.
the story of a worldwide flood is not unique to the bible... there are hundreds of very similar stories told by different nations around the world almost every nation and religion on earth teach it to some degree
Um, no. Most of the nations and religions that have ever existed never had a flood myth. Again, YOU make the positive claim. YOU give the support.
i agree with you that some things in the bible are not literal but figurative... but i dont think the flood is one of them
I want to discuss a little about the possible and more simple explanation for the hand full of various cultures who have had some kind of "world wide" flood myth. Can you think of a single other disaster that (1) could destroy an entire civilization (or at least bring it to its knees) and (2) happens more than just a few times in a generation? Where I'm from, I read about floodings every year on the news. To the people of ancient times, the land where they grew up was literally the entire world TO THEM. If they lived in an area that had the potential for regular disastrous floodings, it does not take the imagination far to come up with a "world wide" flood that wiped out everything. If what I just said didn't stick, try to think of it this way. How come major ancient cultures like the Greek, Chinese, Mongolian, etc. never had a "world wide" flood myth? All of these cultures' histories pre-date the biblical flood myth. You'd think that someone would have noticed about a flood that covered the highest of mountains. The closest single historical events I can think of that were almost universally recorded by ancient cultures all around the world were great volcanic eruptions. For example, the santorini eruption happened in the Mediterranian but it affected areas as far as China and its effects recorded by various cultures all around the northern hemisphere.
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
How come major ancient cultures like the Greek, Chinese, Mongolian, etc. never had a "world wide" flood myth? Actually, all three of those cultures DID have a flood myth, nothing like the Bible, but a flood myth nonetheless. Flood Stories from Around the WorldFlood Stories from Around the World Flood Stories from Around the World
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Taz Member (Idle past 3319 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
I didn't say flood myth. I said world wide flood myth, especially one that supposedly killed off everyone but 2 people.
If you're talking about just a flood myth, everybody's got one. Heck, I got my own flood myth about how after 4 hours of driving from out of state a few months ago I had to wander around my town looking for a route that hadn't been flooded yet to get to my house. My neighborhood was literally at the top of a hill which surroundings had been flooded. The explanation for that is already given in my previous post. Flood is the only single devastating event that happens regularly. Again, where I come from, I read about floodings every year. When a culture wanted to create a myth involving large number of deaths by the wrath of some kind of supernatural being(s), it doesn't take much of an imagination to refer back to floodings simply because it happens regularly and everytime it happens it seems to the victims like the world has come to an end. Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
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Bailey Member (Idle past 4398 days) Posts: 574 From: Earth Joined: |
Taz writes: In this thread, I offer a compromise. What if the Bible is literally true and yet the details can be less than literal ..... What do you think? Religious Jews and scholars of that time did not have the scientific knowledge that we take for granted, so they did not think of the world in scientific terms or descriptions. Instead they attempted to conceptualize the world in terms of what they knew, as we currently do, and usually described it visually. Generally speaking, not much has changed ... Understanding this takes nothing away from the revelation of the God's Word in scripture. It simply acknowledges that authors are children of their days, and that views expressing and depicting the makeup of the spirit and flesh are at the mercy of perception. One describes experiences in ways one can, in the times one lives. One understands them in the same relative way. Perhaps we are called to recognize and respond to the incarnated Word of God in scripture. It may be only then, in the recognition and response, that scripture becomes the living and active Word of the God. Let me address the issue of literalism from one perspective. This view sees scripture as a pliable witness by a living community of faith invested in the God’s Self-revelation in history. That is, scripture records the witness of the living community of faith invested in the God and His Work in the world. As authoritative scripture for the community, the God also uses that witness to reveal himself to future generations, at the same time that those future generations may also encounter the God in new ways at new points in history. This affirms a very dynamic view of scripture as well as the God’s actions in the world, and rejects the reductionist portrayal of scripture as the absolute Truth and paradigm for everything that we want to know, including past history (ie. The Flud). In other words, the God and His Truths are innately inerrant; our perception of His scribes perception ... not so much. There is no reason for scripture to end with the new testament authors, as the living community of faith has not ended. Scripture is simply the witness that the living community of faith has borne to or about the God's revelation; a joined effort between humans and the God focused towards uniting the spiritual and the biological worlds. It captures moments in history, and explains them as well as they need be ... It is, for all intents and purposes, the evolution of reality. As far as I can tell anyway ...Take it with a grain of salt. One Love Mercy Trumps Judgement, Love Weary The Apostle of the Skeptics writes:
"...picture me alone in that room ... night after night, feeling ... the steady, unrelenting approach of Himwhom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me."
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Peg Member (Idle past 4957 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
[quote"Brian"]I see this claim a lot on the Net, yet it is never supported. So, perhaps you can point us to a few stories from around the world that are 'very similar' to the Bible version.[/quote]
Hi Brian, In the book Myths of Creation, Philip Freund estimates that over 500 Flood legends are told by more than 250 tribes and peoples. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Vol. 2, p. 319) states: “Flood stories have been discovered among nearly all nations and tribes. Though most common on the Asian mainland and the islands immediately south of it and on the North American continent, they have been found on all the continents. Totals of the number of stories known run as high as about 270 . the Maya in Mexico and Central America had their Flood legend that involved a universal deluge, or haiyococab, which means “water over the earth.” the Incas had their Flood legends. British writer Harold Osborne states: “Perhaps the most ubiquitous features in South American myth are the stories of a deluge Aztec mythology spoke of four previous ages, during the first of which the earth was inhabited by giants. (That is another reminder of the Nephilim, the giants referred to in the Bible at Genesis 6:4.) It included a primeval flood legend in which “the waters above merge with those below, obliterating the horizons and making of everything a timeless cosmic ocean.” The book China”A History in Art tells us that one of the ancient rulers of China was Y, “the conqueror of the Great Flood. Y channeled flood waters into rivers and seas to resettle his people.” Mythology expert Joseph Campbell wrote about the Chinese “Period of the Great Ten,” saying: “To this important age, which terminates in a Deluge even the Australian Aboriginals have flood legends in their 'dreamtime mythology'
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Peg Member (Idle past 4957 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Taz wrote: "How come major ancient cultures like the Greek, Chinese, Mongolian, etc. never had a "world wide" flood myth?"
its notable that the Greeks have myths and legends that resemble the Genesis account of 'pre-flood' conditions. the time when giants and gods walked the earth. the chinese have legends of their emperor Yu who was said to conquer the great flood and save his people... the mongols dont have a flood legend that resembles the bible. The mongols leader was a shaman and their stories and practices vary from place to place and from shaman to shaman i do appreciate what you saying though, the legends themselves do not necessarily equate to proof of a flood. Edited by Peg, : error fixed
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
i do appreciate what you saying though, the legends themselves do not necessarily equate to proof of a flood. The problem with flood stories is that they are horribly nonspecific, both as to what occurred and when it occurred--if it occurred at all! What is the most telling is that the purported global flood is placed at about 4,350 years ago and there is a mountain of evidence that shows no such flood happened at that time (in fact, there is no evidence for a worldwide flood at any time). Creationists refuse to accept the scientific evidence and cling to any hint of support for such a flood. These worldwide flood myths are a classic example. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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