Different numbers of chromosomes?

I posted what I reproduce below in response to the post by "Ilion" that borger links to. Ilion, like Borgewr, is an admitted 'darwin attacker' and non-scientist. As is Ilion's custom, he ignoirewd the falsification of his claims:

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I quote from a resident creationist:

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"Don’t let the fact that in quote above Lindsay says If a human-chimp hybrid were to exist mislead you. We don’t know the species of our hybrid (2n=47) in question or its parent stock (2n=48), and we don’t need to know, because this problem isn’t species specific.

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As I stated above at the point when I asserted that our hybrid (2n=47) is actually sterile, after all, I realize that I could be wrong: I could be mis-remembering a lesson from long ago or new evidence may have shown the fact I learned to not always be true. Since I haven’t found anything that specifically backs up this fact (or my assertion of it) , I must rely on what I hope is correct understanding of the Britannica article I quoted. Specifically, Homologous paternal and maternal chromosomes pair up along the midline of the cell. Each pair of chromosomes--called a tetrad, or a bivalent--consists of four chromatids. At this point, the homologous chromosomes exchange genetic material by the process of crossing over In our hybrid (2n=47) the chromosome 2 pair are not homologous, implying that I am correct in my remembered fact."

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In response, I offer this, emphasis mine:

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Cytogenet Cell Genet 1978;21(4):177-83

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Chromosomal polymorphism in Equus hemionus.

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Ryder OA.

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The first cytogenetic studies of the Turkmenian kulan, Equus hemionus kulan, are reported, and a polymorphism in diploid chromosome number is described. Chromosome fusion is apparently involved in the alterations of the karyotype of E. hemionus kulan (2n = 55, 54) when compared to the karyotype of the onager, E. hemionus onager (2n = 56). Additionally, the rearrangement involved has been identified in animals unrelated through captive breeding; inheritance of the fusion chromosomes has also been observed.

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In other words, individuals of species with polymorphic karyotypes can produce viable offspring. The 'hole' supposedly poked is getting patched...

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I also offer this:

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A minor correction here. About 1 in 10,000 donkeys are fertile!
(."~Lorraine Travis, The Mule, J. A. Allen, 1990, p 68-69)

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I don't know the technical details of how this happens but some animals seem
to evolve by chromosomal fusion and chromosomal breakage. Przewalski's horse is the horse that was drawn on cave walls in Europe. It is now extinct in Europe but was found alive in central Asia. It has 66 chromosomes. The
modern horse has 64. It was not found alive until the late 1800's. It is
believed that either Przewalski's horse arose from the modern horse by
chromosomal breakage or that the modern horse arose from Przewalski's by
chromosomal fusion. These two horses can breed and produce fertile
offspring. The two broken chromosomes of the Przewalski align with the unbroken one of the modern horse. By this means, gene flow can take place between these two creatures. There is other evidence of this type of
evolution in equines. The donkey has 62, Burchell's zebras (or "plains
zebra") have 44 chromosomes, but some have 45 chromosomes due to a chromosome that broke in two. If two 45-chromosome zebras mated, it is possible that you could get a 46-chromosome Burchell's zebra! Persian onagers can have 55 or 56 chromosomes; kulans can have 54 or 55; and kiangs can have 55 or 56.

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References

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(see ~R. V. Short, A. C. Chandley R. C. Jones and W. R. Allen, "Meiosis in
interspecific equine hybrids II. THe Przewalski horse/domestic horse hybrid"
Cytogenet. Cell, Genet., 13: 465-478 (1974), p. 476
and
~A. Trommershausen-Bowling and L. Millon, "Centric fission in the karyotype of
a mother-daughter pair of donkeys (Equus asinus), Cytogent. Cell Genet. 47:
152-154 (1988), p. 153

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and
~O.A. Ryder, "Chromosomal Polymorphism in Equus hemionus, Cytogenet. Cell
Genet.21:177-183 (178), p. 178-179)

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The above was written by (gasp!, eyeroll) Glen Morton. That is, of course, irrelevant as he provided references.

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It is obvious then that the claims of Ilion regarding the breakage/fusion of chromosome 2 is an evolution stopper are baseless. The exact mechanisms of how this happens are apparently unknown for certain at this time, but from these horse and horse-like exmaples, it is clear that differing karyotypes are not necessarily lethal nor do they necessarily produce infertile offspring.

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The poked hole is now fully sealed. And it did not take 14 pages to do it.

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Borger:

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That was not the point, Page, and you know it. The point was that the mechanism between fusion and transloctaion are distincly different.
And you evo-guys put them on the same pile.

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No, borger, that was not the point AND I know it. Your point - actually, an admitted non-scientist and 'Darwin attacker's' point - was that speciation cannot occur due to differing chromosomal numbers.
Apparently, you failed to read much of the thread you linked to. "Ilion" was roundly and soudly rebutted, but in typical misinformed creationist fashion, he merely would not admit to it. Much the same as you have done during your tenure here.

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Why do I still discuss with you, while you do not even understand molecular biology mechanisms?

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Like I said, apparently you did not read the thread you linked to.
Of course, I can provide a link wherein the same creationut - Ilion - proudly referred to the link you posted at the ARN forum. He was slammed there, too. :
And there, too, he wouldn't/couldn't admit it

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You are far out of date. I recommend you to buy yourself a recent biology book! And read it!

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Thanks for the recommendation.Here is mine:I strongly suggest that you learn how to read for COMPREHENSION rather than quote mining. You made yourself look like a fool with your claims re: "Darwin in the Genome", the alpha actinin genes, etc.[This message has been edited by SLPx, 04-03-2003]