Women and the Fundamentalist View of Marriage

What it really amounts to, the best I remember from my Bible-studying days, is that Jesus was quite the radical egalatarian, but Paul (or more accurately, one or two of the guys who wrote epistles under Paul's name) was a sexist, misogynist old fart.

Well replace 'children' with Jew and 'Dogs' with gentiles and read it again.Brian.

I guess it is a bit complicated because Jews do exist. In that, if they are in denial of the cross, then obviously they are under the law. I myself have broken Commandments, hence my dog. If I am sinful I can be forgiven by Christ, and recieve the fruit of the spirit, which fulfills the law. The Ten Commandments are very "in" and the law shall not be removed, yet we have to consider - me being a dog, I was never under the law and therefore, when I had "broken" it, the only way back was Christ. For a gentile, according to scripture, there is only one way back.If then, I partake in Christ who saves me, do I then become a Jew? I trow not, for I was always a dog, and I have been made a "child" by Christ alone. Therefore, I can only remain a child through Christ alone, and not through any work of my own.If anything, the "crumbs for the dogs" is a rarity in scripture, when the Roman says to Christ "I am not worthy for you to enter my house, for I have men under me, and I say - go, and they go...."(similar words) then Christ says, "I have not found so great a faith". So then, Christ isn't a racist or prejudice person in any way whatsoever, yet the "crumbs" shows us, if anything, his grace.Not that I see the Commandments in a lesser light. If I break them, I have still sinned. The law is there to show sin.Ofcourse, this is all New Testament.

It's okay, I know your fight is with Buzsaw, we shall name you two, Batman versus Catwoman. It may appear that the bible says men are superior to women, yet with full application of scripture, taken into account - I have discovered that the supposed creases in the shirt, are ironed out.If for example, we take the marriage as the joining of "one flesh" - how then, can the wife be the lesser? But rather it is about service. Who came and was servant to all, yet was really the Master?If a man really wants to be the head, he will be the servant. Ofcourse, maybe my opinion isn't valid though, as I am not married.

So... what, taking in Christ is like a loophole around Jewish law? Then what relevance does the Old Testament, including the Ten Commandments, have? Couldn't the sum total of the Bible just be "accept Jesus"? Ha ha, Buz wears leather tights.

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

No Dan, that's not it. In the NT, it says the law is there to show sin, and also, that many be grafted in. You see, in my previous post I said that I am still sinful if I break the Commandments. Yet I do consider them. For example, I tend to observe them as best I can, in the knowledge of the fruit of the spirit. "Do no murder" for example, - I definately observe that Commandment. Yet, Christ also gave new Commandments, to love my enemy and neighbour, therefore, if anything, we can see the importance of observing those words. But, my intentions are the same - to please God. So I wouldn't seek to go against it, but rather to achieve the fruit of the spirit, which fulfills it.You see, what I am explaining, is that if I break one Commandment, I have broken them all, how then shall I be saved? It is not my intentions to continue breaking them - nor will I be justified. If you buy a house without blemish, and in moving furniture - you scrape the wallpaper, then that house will be blemished, even the whole house will lose it's perfection as people will concentrate on the scar.

But Mike, this just brings us right back to the original question... how do you pick and choose which of the laws are sinful to break?For instance, why must you observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, but not wear suits made of only one type of cloth?

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

If it is written that it is sinful to break them, then so be it. I don't pick and choose which ones are sinful to break. To the best of my knowledge, it is sinful to break them.If I don't observe the sabbath day, then I have failed to observe it.

Then... shouldn't you be maintaining the view that women are subservient to men? And how do you reconcile the contradiction with Jesus being all girl-power?

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

quote:

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Ha ha, Buz wears leather tights.

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I'm no Michelle Pfeiffer, but I do have a pair of red suede jeans that fit quite well.

My friend, the explanation is therein, my postings.I have never found an instance where there can be no possible explanation.Maybe you cannot understand what I mean by the fruit of the spirit. Either way I think it's fair to say this exchange is fruitless. I could never reconcile my belief to your mindset.

I wouldn't say never it has happened to many who said the same thing.
when your roof is full of holes it might be time to get a new house.

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My site The Atheist BibleMy New Debate Fourms!

To mike_the_wiz:Sorry for interrupting, but I am a bit confused by your post.I have been following this discussion (between you and Dan Carroll) quite well. That is, up to the point of your last post: Firstly, I don't see (as with Dan Carroll) how you can justify you decision in keeping the rules and regulations in the OT that you deem important, while for the same or other obscure reason(s), dismiss others. Please explain.Secondly, is so vague it is bordering on the edge of pointlessness. And the bad thing is, your post is so short that there is hardly any context to misquote it from. Please explain.Thirdly, I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as hell don't understand what you mean by "the fruit of the spirit", nor its relevance to what we are discussing (that is, how you can pick and choose between what rules you want to keep, and what you can't). Please explain what you mean and its relevance.I do not believe that this exchange is fruitless (as I am at present discussing this very point with Brian and jar on another thread), but I pray that you will explain the three points above I have outlined. Thank you.(Just a friendly reminder: post 149 awaits you in the "The power of prayers vs. The Divine plan" thread. I said "take your time", I didn't say "ignore it for as long as you can get away with". It has been 3-4 days since your last response (depending on time-zone) and I believe that I deserve a reply around now?)Sincerely awaiting your reply (to both posts).

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"Respect is like money, it can only be earned. When it is given, it becomes pittance"

Haven't read the original thread, but I think I get the idea where this is going so I'll try and derail it right here.I am Christian but the Bible DOES contradict itself clearly when Jesus says something like 'truly there wouldn't be a new testemant if the old were not flawed'. I think this simply acknowledges that humans tamper with God's word 'telephone' style, and Jesus revamped it(it's obviously been tampered with yet again in the past 2000 years).Jesus constantly broke old testament rules; why else would the pharasees be on his back all the time? So if we just say, "yeah, the NT disagrees with OT sometimes" then we can move on to how Jesus treated all races and both sexes as equals despite his bigoted disciples. If we conclude that then there's no question that women can be equal to men because Jesus being the messiah has more say-so than any disciple.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

or, as this is better for you financially, you could always fix the roof.