What did I Misunderstand, Zachariah?

The information contained in a book is only part of the body of evidence that people use in coming to a conclusion. That info has to fit in with all the other available evidence. To blindly accept the contents of a book is something a child does, I don’t think I know anyone who simply accepts that everything in a book true. Unless you count some Christians that I know. I disagree. I would argue that there are very few history books where the author eye witnessed all the events he reports on. Can you name one book that the author claims to be an eyewitness to all he reports? Where do you get this tripe from? LOL , What date are you proposing for the first circulated Bible? It isn’t because these things happened a long time ago, it is because many biblical events either contradict the laws of nature, contradict each other, have artificial chronologies, composite accounts written over many centuries, unreliable historical accounts, etc. Yes the gospels are ‘according to_____’ that is why we have no idea who actually wrote them, well it is one reason. You forget that many of us here have believed that the Bible is 100% true in everything it claims. However, some of us grow up and develop inquiry skills that do not allow us to accept ancient Semitic campfire tales as being true. Some of us actually understand why the Bible was written. But we know that the majority of it has been falsified, that is that parts that can be falsified. The Bible has an extremely poor record as a reliable historical source, time to waken up. It is either stubbornness or we accept the facts. Being stubborn is to bury your head in the sand and ignore everything that science, archaeology and history tells us. There is also the possibility that these claims are untrue, if you were more open minded you would enjoy the Bible more, and appreciate it more. There is the FACT that you have definitely misinterpreted an awful lot. Nineteen years is a long enough sentence . I am surprised you haven’t read the Bible all the way through, even one book a week would only take just over a year, and some are so short that it should take less time than this. We used this approach at Bible Studies when I was about 12, you should try it. There were actually real Hebrews? Do you have any evidence of a culture that referred to themselves as ‘Hebrew’? Sunday isn’t the Sabbath, Sunday is the Lord’s Day. Pascal’s Wager, you are following God for all the wrong reasons, you are assuming that God is stupid, oh dear. I have lived a good life, done good things (still do), don’t break the law, yet if the Bible myths are true I go to Hell! Ah the unconditional love of Jesus is very moving ‘believe in me or burn forever’, who could fail to love the guy? You seriously have to examine your reasons for being a Christian, do you think that you can con God by believing in him as an ‘insurance policy’. You must believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and Saviour, to believe in him because there may be a reward at the end wont get your anywhere near those pearly gates.Brian.

Thank you very much, I do have a lot of competition for this title, but I happily accept it until a more deserving person comes along. But I do appreciate your very ‘unchristianlike’ reply. But Zach, this is the stance that you want US to take, you are saying that we should believe in God just in case the biblical narratives about hell and eternal damnation are true. You want us to cover our backs, this presumes that God is dumb and doesn’t know your heart, don’t you think God would know if we were choosing to believe in Him for the reasons that you say we should? This smacks of double standards, you are pleading with us to have an open mind and consider the possibility that God does exist, yet you are not prepared to return the courtesy? Why do you assume that myself and others haven’t already taken this approach and concluded that God doesn’t exist? Just because you have arrived at a different conclusion doesn’t mean that you are correct and we are wrong. We both work from a position of faith, the difference is what we accept as being satisfactory evidence for our stances. But Zach this is essentially Pascal’s Wager, it has been rejected for decades as being severely flawed. You are asking us to believe ‘just in case’ there may be a God. Why should we go through our lives believing in embarrassing childish tales that have been falsified many times and contradict what everything else in our lives tell us? Oh yes I forgot, we should believe in them in the off chance that they may happen to be right. No thanks, it is a childish argument. I totally understand the point you are making, but you do not realise how flawed and childish the point is. Look at it this way, why don’t you follow Allah just in case the Qur’an is correct, I mean what have you got to lose? However, if you follow the Qur’an and there is nothing after death then so what? But if you follow it and it just happens to be true then you are in paradise. Do you see now how silly your proposal is?What if we do follow your advice and believe in Jesus as Lord and Saviour because it might just happen to be true but it actually turns out that Islam is true, you have condemned us all to eternal damnation. Good grief, let me break it down into simpler terms for you.What evidence do you have that the ethnic group identified as Hebrews in the Bible actually did exist? Now to say that the Hebrews mentioned in the Bible existed because the Bible says they existed is circular reasoning. Do you have any external non-biblical evidence that an ethnic group identifiable as ‘Hebrew’ existed. I think I am capable of looking in a Bible for the mention of the word ‘Hebrew’. But the mention of Hebrews in the Bible doesn’t mean that there ever was any. I am not saying that there were never any Hebrews, I am asking what evidence you have, outside of the Bible, to support their existence. This doesn’t make sense, surely you mean it wouldn’t surprise you if I didn’t count these as good references?These are not good references Zach, these are only references to the mention of the word ‘Hebrew’ in the Bible. How can I not believe in the Bible, I have six of them on my bookshelf?If you meant to say that I do not believe anything in the Bible, then you are wrong again. I believe a great deal of what is in the Bible, I just don’t believe all of it. But since you are coming from a position of self-confessed ignorance, you really cannot comment on the contents of the Bible.Oh, before I go, I would very much like you to support this dogmatic statement: The bible is the oldest book in circulation You state this unequivocally, so you really must have researched this to be so sure about it. Would you care to share with me why you have arrived at this conclusion?Brian.

Hi, You are very welcome, and thank you for your kind words.Brian.

When you say something like: Claiming that everyone has Hebrew roots, what exactly have you researched to support this? But I am not making any claims about having Hebrew roots, nor am I informing others that they do. I am interested in how you come to so many apparently unambiguous conclusions. They could be a group that has nothing to do with the Bible.
They could be a group that do not exist outside of the Bible.
They could be a group whose ancestors have been 'hijacked' by the biblical authors.There are many things that they could be, but have the biblical Hebrews left any evidence of their existence outside of the Bible? Something like inscriptions, treaties, seals, architecture, anything that is distinctly 'Hebrew'?If the only reasons that you believe that Hebrews existed are the mention in the Bible and there is a Hebrew language then that is fair enough. There is no 'trap' here, you don't have to be so defensive.Brian.

Hi Zach, It is no problem Zach we all have bad days now and then.Thanks for the Hebrew explanation.Any luck with supporting 'the Bible is the oldest book in ciruclation' claim, do you wish to retract that, or is this also a belief?Brian.

I do apologise, but I am still unsure of what exactly it is you are saying here.As you are a Christian, then the Bible to you includes the Old and New Testaments, therefore, are you saying that the original bible (Old + New Testaments) was the first book ever written?Are you therefore claiming that the Bibles we have in circulation today are copies of the first ever book? Well the oldest comprehensive book. It is, of course, nowhere near the oldest text in existence, and neither, for that matter, is anything in the Bible.Brian.

Hi,Thanks for clearing things up.Brian.

Hi Zach, How can you have the conclusion that the prophecies from Isaiah are truly divine if you havent even read the Book of Isaiah yet?You may be surprised to learn that the Book of Isaiah is actually an amalgamation of three different authors, so it would be difficult to attribute any prophecy contained therein to the actual prophet Isaiah, if indeed such a person ever existed.You should try reading the Bible with an open mind, it is a much more fascinating collection of texts if you are not overly subjective.Brian.