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Author | Topic: What makes homo sapiens "human"? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
1.61803 Member (Idle past 1535 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi custard, I apologize if my line of thought is perturbing to you.
custard writes: Are humans apes or not? If your answer is yes then how is it humans have the monopoly on this word called language? When did Humans cease being apes? And when did ape/ animal communication begin to be called language? Is there a distinct line from human ancestors formulating communication to what is call language? I have been ignorant of what language is. I always thought that humans were animals with large brains that have evolved to the point of being able to communicate in very complex ways, and that this was Human language, but I always thought that other animals had language as well. I have learned something. Great topic custard *edit typo. No. I wouldn't agree that human language evolved from trillobytes either. This message has been edited by 1.61803, 06-29-2004 05:27 PM
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custard Inactive Member |
Are humans apes or not? Yes humans are related to apes.
If your answer is yes then how is it humans have the monopoly on this word called language? Dude, the same way we humans have a monopoly on a thing called the opposable thumb. Does an ape, by virtue of being related to us also have a thumb? So why should it have the ability to use language? Especially if guys like Chomsky are correct and language is only possible because of the way our brains have developed.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Show me which animal communication fulfills all of these criteria. I don't believe that all human communication fulfulls these criteria. But we still consider it a use of language when a human says "goodbye" to another reflexively, without thinking about it (ala using the elements of language without being aware of their meaning). The entire field of etiquitte is about using words reflexivly, without thinking about their meaning. How often have you said "how are you?" without actually intending to ask how a person is? If human communication can be considered language without meeting all these criteria, it seems like a double standard to insist that animals meet them all. But I guess you may disagree. Certainly the "best" use of human language meets these criteria. (I think your addition of syntax is covered under "discreetness", btw, or possibly "duality".)
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
the golden ratio writes:
I've always been under the impression that humans are homonids, not apes. Are humans apes or not? The Laminator
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
The actual names depend, I think, on who is doing the classification, but Hominidae would appear to include the extant apes, as well.
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
That's odd. I could have sworn that I learned in bio that one of the criteria for being a homonid is bipedal locomotion. Oh well.
The Laminator
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
I think the exact words and their meanings depend on who is doing the classification.
I agree, that I think I have heard hominid as referring to bipedal apes. I think I have seen hominoid used to refer to the apes in general.
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John Williams Member (Idle past 5029 days) Posts: 157 From: Oregon, US Joined: |
Well we define ourselves as human. We are biologically as animal as a tarantualla, but our actions and beliefs and thought contribute to the overall "humanhood" of us.
That's my short summary. Corpus Maritanius 1964 - |
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Chiroptera writes:
That's it! A light bulb just lite up above my head. Homonid (or hominid- which ever way you want) refers to bipedal primates. Homonoid (or hominoid - either way) refers to apes and homonids. I agree, that I think I have heard hominid as referring to bipedal apes. I think I have seen hominoid used to refer to the apes in general.
Ok, I have that cleared up in my head now. The Laminator
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1535 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi Lam, birds are bipedal as well as us hairless apes.
Ok, Humans are hominids as you have said. Early humans were hominids as well, we are in the order primates along with the apes. So I apologize for being misleading. Living Links | Page not found
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
I currently use a 56k modem to get online, so it takes forever to fish online for info. All my books are still in my suitcases (I still haven't unpacked). Right now, I am only pulling info out of my long term memory banks.
The Laminator
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1535 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Your one of the smartest people I don't know Lam. Sorry off topic but Custard has dug his heels into this language thread and has defended his premise with valor and merit, To bad I still do not completely agree
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6053 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
Dude, the same way we humans have a monopoly on a thing called the opposable thumb. Does an ape, by virtue of being related to us also have a thumb? Apparently, since apes do have opposable thumbs, as do other animals. Not only do we not have a monopoly, we pale in comparison to the koala, which has six opposable digits:
Also, most primates have an opposable thumb; that is, a thumb that can be brought opposite the forefinger, allowing them to grasp and cling tightly to the branches of trees. Opposable thumbs allow primates to make fine manipulations with their hands, which probably led to the ability to use tools. In humans, the thumb is proportionately larger than in other primates, and the tip of this opposable thumb can cross over the palm to touch the other fingers. frontpage.kconline.com/tschriefer/Lecture%20Notes/chapter19.htm Chimpanzees' hands are very much like ours; they have four long fingers plus an opposable thumb (the thumb is shorter than the other fingers). Their feet have five toes, including an opposable big toe. Chimpanzees can grasp things with both their hands and their feet.http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/apes/chimp/ * Panda - Panda paws have five clawed fingers plus an extra bone that works like an opposable thumb. This "thumb" is not really a finger (like our thumb is), but an extra-long wrist bone that works like a thumb.* Koala - opposable toe on each foot, plus two opposable digits on each hand * Opossum - opposable thumb * Cebids (New World primates of Central and South America) - some have opposable thumbs * Bornean Orangutan - opposable thumbs so that its forefeet are really like hands. The interdigital grip gives them the ability to pick fruit. They also have an opposable big toe. From Wikipedia.com Perhaps the more important question is, why don't we have opposable toes? Likely because we don't hang out in trees anymore; since the opposable thumb/toe appears to have been initially an adaptation to arboreal life and the branch-grasping it entails. So if an ape gives you an (opposable) thumbs-up, is that an abstraction worthy of language?
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custard Inactive Member |
So if an ape gives you an (opposable) thumbs-up, is that an abstraction worthy of language? If so, then we have all the evidence we need to prove apes can use language in Every Which Way But Loose.
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custard Inactive Member |
Apparently, since apes do have opposable thumbs, as do other animals. OK, you got me... but can apes do this?
This message has been edited by custard, 06-30-2004 02:48 AM This message has been edited by custard, 06-30-2004 03:08 AM
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