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Author Topic:   The Book of Revelation, Hallucination, and Heresy
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 54 of 57 (148956)
10-10-2004 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
07-07-2004 3:39 PM


Continuation of our Topic from Who can be Saved?
Jar..sometimes you baffle me. You begin to show us how spiritual that the Bible is, and then you say things like
I don't believe that you can take either the OT or NT as literal. And from a religious point of view, it simply does not matter if anything in the Bible is true or really happened.
I suppose that you mean this statement to include the Resurrection of Jesus Christ? The fact is, without Jesus Christ, Christianity is at best a good philosophy. The power of it is lost, however. We do not save ourselves, nor do we get to Heaven ONLY by our good works.I know what your pet parable says in the Sheep/Goats Parable, but my point about that Parable was that it applied to the Jews and the rest of the Nations at the time of Revelation. Jesus was addressing His Disciples, all of whom were NOT part of the Body of Christ of Gentile Believers started by the Apostle Paul. Google Dispensational sites for more explanations concerning this belief. Getting back to Dispensationalism,
www.dispensationalism.com writes:
Dispensationalists will define 3 key dispensations, (1) The Mosaic Law, (2) The present age of Grace, and (3) the future Millennial Kingdom. Most will agree about the first two, and covenantal believers will disagree about the third, seeing this as the 'eternal state'. (Since they don't see a literal Millennial Kingdom, the future literal fulfillment of the Davidic Kingdom.)
A greater breakdown of specific dispensations is possible, giving most traditional dispensationalists (7) recognizable dispensations.
  • Innocence - Adam+Eve up to the Fall
  • Conscience - After man sinned, up to the flood
  • Government - After the flood, man allowed to eat meat, death penalty instituted
  • Promise - Abraham up to Moses and the giving of the Law
  • Law - Moses to the cross
  • Grace - The cross to the Millennial Kingdom
  • Millennial Kingdom - A 1000 year reign of Christ on earth centered in Jerusalem
    Remember that ALL of the Bible was written for us, yet ALL of the Bible was not written TO us. some parts are written to Jews, some parts to the Church and other Gentile Believers/non believers.
  • While not everyone needs to agree on this breakdown, the point from the dispensationalists view is that God is working with man in a progressive way. At each stage man has failed to be obedient to the responsibilities set forth by God. (administration, dispensation) The method of salvation, justification by faith alone, never changes through the time periods. The responsibilities God gives to man does change. The Jews were to be obedient to the Law if they wished God's blessing of Land. If they were disobedient, they would be scattered. However, God promises to always bring them back to the land promised to Abraham in the Abrahamic Covenant. After the cross, believers no longer need the Law, which pointed to Christ as the one that would take the burden of sin. We are under a new Law, the Law of Grace. We have more revelation about God, and are no longer required to keep ceremonial laws given to the Jews.
    Revelation, according to most dispensationalists, was not written TO us the Church.
    Revelation is for the Jews and the unbelievers left on Earth AFTER the Rapture of the Church. The book of Revelation after the letters to the seven churches is a prophecy concerning events that will occur during the last seven years before the second coming or 70th week. (Futurist) This 70th week is called the tribulation period. The last half of this week (the last 3.5 years) is the Great Tribulation spoken of in Dan. 9 and in the olivet discourse (Matt. 24). This tribulation period is a time when God will pour out his wrath on a sinful world.
    This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-10-2004 06:01 PM
    This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-10-2004 06:03 PM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by jar, posted 07-07-2004 3:39 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 55 by jar, posted 10-10-2004 7:24 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 56 of 57 (149114)
    10-11-2004 11:36 AM
    Reply to: Message 55 by jar
    10-10-2004 7:24 PM


    Re: Continuation of our Topic from Who can be Saved?
    jar writes:
    Religion is a belief system. A belief system. It's not based on what is fact, but rather what we believe. If the stories in the Bible were only tales, would that have any effect on the value of the message itself?
    1 Cor 15:1-2 writes:
    Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
    So is it the Faith in the Gospel or the power of the Gospel Himself?
    Acts 1:7-8 writes:
    But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
    Notice that one receives power directly from the Holy Spirit and not just in a Belief. One can have Faith in a rosary and yet they are having faith in a bunch of glass beads..And now a misunderstood scripture..
    Mark 11:22-25= "Have faith in God," Jesus answered. "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."
    The key phrase is Have faith in God...not "have faith in faith". In other words, one who is so intimately aware of Gods Will would not try and move mountains. They would only speak what they heard in their heart.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 55 by jar, posted 10-10-2004 7:24 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 57 by jar, posted 10-11-2004 5:25 PM Phat has not replied

      
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